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dronestar
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Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(3)
Message 9 of 53 (888967)
10-26-2021 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tanypteryx
05-07-2021 5:52 PM


Re: Dragonfly wing movement
Hi Tanypteryx,

Not sure if this is the best place to add this, sorry in advance if this is too off-topic for the thread, but I found the most interesting site of infographics that included the moving wing pattern of a dragonfly:
Tabletop Whale


http://tabletopwhale.com/img/posts/09-29-14.gif
I expected the wings to move symmetrically, at least in pairs, (as all other insects, and birds?). However, while the poster cautions that this isn't a fully accurate scientific representation, the animation does seem to show that the wings move in a rotational style, almost like a rotary asynchronous piston engine pointed upward.

I've always marveled at how quick and maneuverable the dragonfly can fly, and if the movement's depiction is correct, I was just wondering if you could give more/any information about its evolved wing pattern.

Or debunk it. : (

thanks


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-07-2021 5:52 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-26-2021 9:34 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(3)
Message 11 of 53 (888969)
10-27-2021 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tanypteryx
10-26-2021 9:34 PM


Re: Dragonfly wing movement
Thanks for the info Tanyp, verrry interesting.

At the moment I am interested in the early history of flight when man tried to authentically copy birds, with usually disastrous results. Kind of understandable, birds DO make flight look easy, . . . go figure. But scientists today have shown how really complicated their flight is. For example, until recently, I never knew that birds obtain lift when their wings move FORWARD. The infographic kind of shows this.

Back to the dragonflies, thanks for confirming, their wings can move independently and longitudinally, but normally move synchronously in pairs. They are a marvel to watch when flying. Perhaps the humming bird is the only other magnificent flyer to compare.

I know in prehistoric times, dragonflies were enormous. So I had to google Megaloprepus caerulatus to see how big we have them now:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/.../15186378584_526edc849d_b.jpg


Pretty cool.

I've quickly googled Georg Rüppell. Found his name but didn't find his films.

In my travels, I've seen some amazing insects. I remember seeing a wickedly cool looking metallic purple bumblebee in Uganda. Colorful beetles in the Amazon rain forest. For some reason I often see a single praying mantis during a visit. The mantis are good photo subjects. You can get really close, they are not fidgety or scared. But dragonflies . . . never once did I ever photograph a dragonfly, closeup. It amazes me that you do this for a living.

You must be a 'dragonfly whisperer.'


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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(4)
Message 13 of 53 (891658)
02-07-2022 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tanypteryx
10-26-2021 9:34 PM


More Dragonfly movement . . . and its sight acumen
Hello again Tanypteryx,

I think I am rapidly becoming a dragonfly enthusiast. Can I come with you on your next research trip? I could help carry the gear, scout photo locations, and make strawberry daiquiris when back at the research tent.

I found the following web site as an example of dragonfly flight (sorry, not sure how to embed video into this forum):

How Do Dragonflies See the World? | Animal Super Senses | BBC Earth

https://thekidshouldseethis.com/...fly-eyes-high-speed-video

The website shows examples of slowed motion videos of dragonflies in flight. It shows the wings operating, at least temporarily, autonomously/out of sync as you reported. Extremely interesting.

But the reason I am posting is because I have found another interesting aspect. According to this BBC video, the dragonfly can supposedly see in "slow motion." While humans can see at about 60 frames per second, dragonflies can see about 200 frames per second. (Houseflies can see about 250 frames per second).

So I am curious, . . . a four-propellor drone helicopter sometimes has on-board 6-axis gyro to steady it's flight. I am presuming the dragonflies high frame rate of sight also helps the dragonfly in flight, particularly when chasing (and catching) its prey. The microprocessor of a 'brain' that links its individual wings and 360 degree sight in nanoseconds is a wonder.

Can you comment?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-26-2021 9:34 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-07-2022 11:13 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 15 of 53 (891679)
02-08-2022 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tanypteryx
02-07-2022 11:13 PM


Re: More Dragonfly movement . . . and its sight acumen
Thanks for the reply and info Tany,

"dragonflies may have 30 or so opsins."

Wow, I had thought only a few other animals had more opsins than man (some octopus have a dozen?). But an insect with 30? Amazing.

A 10-bit HDTV can show a range of 1.07 billion possible colors. IF we divide that by the six primary and secondary colors, we get about 166,666,666 shades of orange. I presume most humans could not discern that many shades of orange. And as a designer, I can confidently state humans only need about . . . three, maybe four shades of oranges in life.

And yet, nature has given a dragonfly the advantage to possibly discern even more, . . . exponentially more, . . . shades of orange?

The dragonfly is pretty impressive.

Many thanks for the PM, I replied.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-07-2022 11:13 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-08-2022 9:14 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 02-10-2022 12:01 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 17 of 53 (891707)
02-09-2022 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tanypteryx
02-08-2022 9:14 PM


Re: More Dragonfly movement . . . and its sight acumen

The idea of MILLIONS of shades of orange to be offered, . . . contrasted with being the very LEAST favorite colour, . . . strikes me as being hilariously ironic.

However, . . . maybe dragonflies like the colour orange. Who am I to tell some random dragonfly what its preferred colour is? The nerve.

The eyes are also broken up into different zones with different diameter or aperture and different focal lengths.

Wow.

only fire nerve impulses if they detect the color and flight pattern of a female which it then imitates precisely."

Amazing. Reminds me of advanced cameras that can detect a face or subject at a designated depth and then snaps the shutter automatically.

Thanks for the recommendation "Eyes to See, the Astonishing Variety of Vision in Nature". Yeah, it sounds like something I would very much enjoy. The book is offered on Amazon for less than $18, and with a hardcover to boot.


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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(3)
Message 20 of 53 (891754)
02-10-2022 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
02-10-2022 12:01 PM


Orange you glad somebody posted this . . .
Hi Ringo,

As a friend of mine used to say, the only things that should ever be orange are pumpkins and oranges.

Just for good measure, . . . can we also declare presidents should never be orange?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 02-10-2022 12:01 PM ringo has seen this message

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 21 of 53 (891756)
02-10-2022 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tanypteryx
02-08-2022 9:14 PM


Re: More Dragonfly movement . . . and its sight acumen
So we have 3 primary colors and they have 30 primary colors.

While I am being silly posting about the color orange, . . .

. . . do we know what colors the dragonflies opsins detect? Are they weighted toward a particular hue? You mentioned ultra-violet. Can there be many shades of ultra-violet that multiple opsins detect? A bee is attracted to the shape of a flower's ultra-violet pattern. But I presume dragonflies do not seek out flowers for the same reason, if at all, correct?

Dragonflies having so many opsins is 'bugging' me. Nature, what the hell? Why?

I may be compelled to buy the book you recommended sooner than later. I wish the book reviewers would have written that the illustrations inside were more polished, my best style for learning is visual.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-08-2022 9:14 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-10-2022 2:54 PM dronestar has replied
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1395
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 23 of 53 (891758)
02-10-2022 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Tanypteryx
02-10-2022 2:54 PM


Re: More Dragonfly movement . . . and its sight acumen
orange the color and orange the fruit

I'm embarrassed to say I only speak English. When traveling, I learn a dozen or so phrases in other languages as I need them, then the words are completely forgotten after I return home. In my case, attempting to speak Chinese was worse than not trying to speak Chinese.

I HIGHLY regret not taking any languages in school or college.


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