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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 481 of 895 (891632)
02-06-2022 1:40 PM


Prayer For The Universe
You are the giver. You are the giver of substance and force. Without your bounty, without your power, nothing could exist. We give notice to your grandeur and your absolute rule over all things. We are your children, born of your very nature. By your determinant grace we have temporary life and with that life we have found love and despair, joy and sorrow, great good and great evil. We lay helpless before you yet beseech no action from you and pay no homage to you for we know your ways are the ways of all of nature and will be as they must be. We can only stand in awe of your presence and of your power and in this we acknowledge the awareness, the knowledge and the fleeting life you have given to us. Amen.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 12:21 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 482 of 895 (891690)
02-09-2022 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by AZPaul3
02-06-2022 1:40 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
I suppose I should respect your prayer, but it's pantheism. Just saying.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by AZPaul3, posted 02-06-2022 1:40 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2022 7:14 AM Phat has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 483 of 895 (891691)
02-09-2022 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 482 by Phat
02-09-2022 12:21 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
You may think so but actually it is an atheist sharing an existential moment with the universe. As long as I don't sacrifice any goats in my office then such moments are allowed.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 12:21 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 484 by vimesey, posted 02-09-2022 4:19 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 485 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 6:31 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 487 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 6:53 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 153 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 484 of 895 (891696)
02-09-2022 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by AZPaul3
02-09-2022 7:14 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
As long as I don't sacrifice any goats in my office then such moments are allowed.
Maybe the odd Trumpist here and there, though...

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2022 7:14 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 6:32 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 485 of 895 (891706)
02-09-2022 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by AZPaul3
02-09-2022 7:14 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
The universe is physical matter. It is not alive nor is it something to be addressed.
I suppose the Gaia Earth worshipping cult would disagree.
You've just stepped your worship up a notch from Mother Earth. Then again, you knew this would push my buttons, so I won't argue. Existential moment, my arse. How is it you can so confidently dismiss a Creator of all seen and unseen and fall for worshipping a bunch of stars, black holes, galaxies, other universes and more random matter and molten goo that you don't have to be accountable to?
Lord Jesus come quickly, please!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2022 7:14 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 488 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-09-2022 7:34 PM Phat has replied
 Message 496 by ringo, posted 02-10-2022 11:42 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 486 of 895 (891708)
02-09-2022 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by vimesey
02-09-2022 4:19 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Perhaps the grand black hole would accept the Donald himself as a worthy sacrifice so that we earth children can play kum ba yah with the universal creatures in the great beyond.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by vimesey, posted 02-09-2022 4:19 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 487 of 895 (891711)
02-09-2022 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by AZPaul3
02-09-2022 7:14 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
As long as I don't sacrifice any goats in my office then such moments are allowed.
You've sacrificed your rational mind! I liked you better when you were a strict atheist. At least you can logically blame humans for their demise (if it occurs through neglect) chalk "God" off as a human-created character in a book who is/was strict, arbitrary, and hateful, take in the grandeur of the massive mysterious universe, and fulfill your human desire to pay homage to something greater than you while realizing that the universe itself plays no favorites and that death is just another part of life as yin is yangs, polar twin. Dualism and Monism are very old concepts...far older than the appearance of Jesus Christ.
No wonder jar favors the Vedas. A random dualistic non-favoring power of chance, fate, and eternal existence as star stuff. We will bury you in space where you can float lifelessly and blissfully eternal and yet still claim not to believe in an afterlife as suggested in the dusty old book.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2022 7:14 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2022 7:46 PM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 488 of 895 (891713)
02-09-2022 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 485 by Phat
02-09-2022 6:31 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Boy, that one went right over your head.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 6:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 02-10-2022 1:50 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 489 of 895 (891714)
02-09-2022 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 487 by Phat
02-09-2022 6:53 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
I liked you better when you were a strict atheist.
What makes you think I've changed? Just because in my old dodderage and depression I talk to things?
If my op had been soliloquy instead of labeled as prayer would that make any difference in your reaction?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by Phat, posted 02-09-2022 6:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by Phat, posted 02-10-2022 1:47 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 497 by ringo, posted 02-10-2022 11:46 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 490 of 895 (891722)
02-10-2022 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 489 by AZPaul3
02-09-2022 7:46 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Maybe. I just get nervous when someone talks to things and pays them homage as if they were alive.
Deut 4:15-20 writes:
15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the LORD took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.
The jews had a concept of G-D that involved no form or image of any kind. For you to gush praise at the universe (a physical entity, mind you...no voice out there apart from the Lord Himself...the Creator of all universes and galaxies...nevermind stars.
But again...this is appropriate in a topic known as anti-theist. I suppose you think you can get away with such drivel. Seeing as how it is your topic, I suppose that you can!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 489 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2022 7:46 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by Theodoric, posted 02-10-2022 9:55 AM Phat has replied
 Message 500 by AZPaul3, posted 02-16-2022 9:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 491 of 895 (891723)
02-10-2022 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 488 by Tanypteryx
02-09-2022 7:34 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Not really. I would scold you too if you worshipped butterflies, insects, and dragonflies. But I think you are mature enough to know the futility of such attention.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-09-2022 7:34 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by jar, posted 02-10-2022 8:14 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 493 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-10-2022 9:48 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 495 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-10-2022 10:21 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 492 of 895 (891727)
02-10-2022 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
02-10-2022 1:50 AM


Pray to something that exists?
Remember Phat, there is evidence that the Universe and sky and butterflies and dragon flies exist.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 02-10-2022 1:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 493 of 895 (891730)
02-10-2022 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
02-10-2022 1:50 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Like I said, it went right over your head.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 02-10-2022 1:50 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 494 of 895 (891731)
02-10-2022 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 490 by Phat
02-10-2022 1:47 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
It's just a book.
Not even a coherent and planned book, but rather a random collection of ancient writings followed by a random collection of classical writings.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Phat, posted 02-10-2022 1:47 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by Phat, posted 02-16-2022 8:08 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(2)
Message 495 of 895 (891732)
02-10-2022 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
02-10-2022 1:50 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Not really. I would scold you too if you worshipped butterflies, insects, and dragonflies.
Acknowledging the amazing beauty of the Universe and specific things in it is not worship, and who the FUCK are YOU to scold anyone?
He didn't ask for YOUR critique.
But I think you are mature enough to know the futility of such attention.
And you demonstrate that you are not mature enough to recognize the futility of worship of imaginary fictional characters.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 02-10-2022 1:50 AM Phat has not replied

  
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