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Author Topic:   Am I the only one who believes in God?
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 16 of 44 (89024)
02-27-2004 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by mark24
12-12-2001 7:43 PM


Mark attacks God, he must think ours is THE one
However, what I AM sure of, is that I'd rather no God at all than the petty, vindictive, bastard you call God.
Marky, Marky, Marky:
Your preference does not mean God of the Bible does not exist, you should know that - being scientific.
Youre judged on someone elses failings. sometimes, but curiously, not always, killed shortly after birth for Adams sins.
What has this got to do with message one?
I am judged on someone elses failings, so now we have the Bible according to Mark24. Why immediately pick on our God? Percy believes in God, pick on his. Isn't his the one with no voice, isn't the Bible atleast documentation! That's a lot of witnesses. You see, I'm interested in why you attack God of the Bible, is all. I certainly don't know my God as vindictive etc...So now, why is it you picked on our God?

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 17 of 44 (89035)
02-27-2004 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
02-27-2004 5:18 AM


Re: Gods Character
phatboy writes:
God created Lucifer BEFORE Lucifer chose to rebel.
Hi phatboy , According to what I understand of Angels they are non corporal entities of pure intellect.
http//CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Angels
It has been debated whether or not Lucifer was created already having made the choice to challange God as an equal. This is because it is believed that Angels transcend time. There is no past or present or future in regards to Supernatural beings like angels. So it stands to reason that at his very creation he "rebelled". as you say. Which brings up a interesting point if angels are pure intellect and God is the truth and right path how could such a creature of astounding wisdom choose the wrong path? This has all gotten batted around throughout the ages in the Vatican Im sure. And to all you Agnostics and Atheist rolling your eyes, I am not assuming any of this is fact.
*and for the record I as well believe there is a God.
[This message has been edited by 1.61803, 02-27-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 44 (89229)
02-28-2004 7:36 AM


so by your logic phatboy, God is not all powerful because He did not create everything, and if He did not create everything how can He be everywhere as everything has to be made of him, If He is the ALL heavenly FATHER then everything has to have originated from him.

Replies to this message:
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DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 19 of 44 (89280)
02-28-2004 3:19 PM


yet ANOTHER Adam and Eve Topic the most recent topic I made in the free for all called religoin is evil altough I planned on it being a different kind of debate then we normally have here...
(planned for each person to say a sentence on the view and back and forth but it didn't work) anyway we got into Adam and eve as well there...

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 44 (89297)
02-28-2004 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by redstang281
12-12-2001 1:29 PM


Am I the only one who believes in God?
To which god do you refer? Jehovah of the Bible, Allah of the Quran, Brahma of Hinduism, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of Buddhism, one of the various other Eastern gods, one or more of the Greek or Roman gods, Native American gods, one or more of the thousands of jungle gods of S America, Africa or the Islands, etc?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by redstang281, posted 12-12-2001 1:29 PM redstang281 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 02-28-2004 8:55 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 44 (89319)
02-28-2004 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Buzsaw
02-28-2004 5:52 PM


Which Deity D'you see?
buzzsaw writes:
To which god do you refer? Jehovah of the Bible, Allah of the Quran, Brahma of Hinduism, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo of Buddhism, one of the various other Eastern gods, one or more of the Greek or Roman gods, Native American gods, one or more of the thousands of jungle gods of S America, Africa or the Islands, etc?
In response, I quote:
Acts 17:22-31= Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone-an image made by man's design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." (from New International Version)
This is the God that I refer to,Buzz.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 02-28-2004 5:52 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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godsmac
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 44 (89339)
02-28-2004 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by redstang281
12-18-2001 7:57 AM


redstang281 writes:
...and creationist have answers to every statement an evolutionist makes.
Answers, yes, but verifiable evidence to the contrary? No.
By the way--I believe in God and accept evolution, too. It's awesome the way God can let a person be happy like that!

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 44 (89343)
02-28-2004 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
02-28-2004 8:55 PM


Re: Which Deity D'you see?
Hi, Phatboy. When I posted I copied Red's thread title and pasted. The system automatically listed you as a co-respondee. My response was meant for Red, since I'm not yet familiar with Red's beliefs. Anyhow yours was a good response from a Christian perspective.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 44 (89346)
02-29-2004 12:01 AM


Wups. I shoulda read the thread before posting and Ida known about Red. My apologies, Red.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 44 (89352)
02-29-2004 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Catalyst
02-28-2004 7:36 AM


Say What?
Catalyst writes:
so by your logic phatboy, God is not all powerful because He did not create everything, and if He did not create everything how can He be everywhere as everything has to be made of him, If He is the ALL heavenly FATHER then everything has to have originated from him.
Say What? Everything is created by God.
Note in Isaiah, when evil is mentioned.
Isa 59:2=But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
In other words, the free will choice to do our own thing leads to evil. Note:
Isa 59:4=
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
God did not want evil to become part of our nature, yet by virtue of Him having to give us a choice in life, evil existed as a concept. It only became internalized into Fallen Angels and later humans because of our choice to disobey Him. I will admit that this concept is deep and is a mystery. I do not see God as an evil tyrant with a magnifying glass and us as ants. I DO see God as knowing a lot more than mere human wisdom can fathom. Also, Catalyst, just because God created all things does not mean that He is all things. That is a concept known as Pantheism. If you paint a picture, you are not the picture. You are the artist.
[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-29-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 44 (89456)
02-29-2004 7:39 PM


Your analogy of the painter is some what lacking, Phatboy, when a person paints a picture sure they do not leave any physical remnents of them in/on the picture (unless its some new age weirdo art) but the picture is a part of them, just as a child to its parents, from idea/ thought to action/ creation it originated from the painter, it is the painters, its part of the painter in a deeper sense than the physical literal sense your talking about!
Is not the trinity a pantheism, or are you taking a different meaning of the word? i am not spliting god into a belief in multiple god heads, i am merely saying that God has to be both evil and good, balanced, i believe that god is all loving, but from the so called "evil" act that occur God has something to teach each of us, about ourselves, others, the world, Himself. Does not God reveal himself to us in strange and wonderful ways? Why is it so hard to believe that the concept of "evil" is a human one, and that really it is Gods will, using both "evil" and "good" to teach, and give wonderous gifts to the soul of each of his creations. Dont we learn from bad experiences?
Your also saying that because God did not create evil, but created freewill in us, that god created us with the capacity for "evil" that up until that time did not exist ... unless he created it! How can everything not be part of God? ALL MIGHTY FATHER, all: everything, everywhere, all knowing etc, mighty: the greatest, nothing grander, best, highest etc, father: relating to creation, children, ideas, concepts, origin!
If God did not want us to have evil, then why do we have it? Answer because he wants it! He uses it, but not in our sense of it.
Fallen angels?! So then by your concept, God must have made a mistake when he made these angels, as they turned to "evil".
Or is it that it was part of His plan? He is using them, as they are part of him.
How can something exist that God did not create, did not intend to use, did not intend to be? Cause if there was such a thing, why would He (being all powerful and all loving) continue to let that thing exist? Or is He not all powerful? Maybe he only has that kind of power, when using it to destroy his creations like he did in the old testimate! Maybe!

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 03-01-2004 12:26 AM Catalyst has not replied
 Message 29 by 1.61803, posted 03-01-2004 11:36 AM Catalyst has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 44 (89491)
03-01-2004 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Catalyst
02-29-2004 7:39 PM


All Part of The Plan....
Calypso, I will agree that the plan is inclusive of everything that has happened. To me, God is not a pantheistic concept, however..We clearly have a choice in life as to what we choose to do or not do, and even if God foreknows our decision, it is not that we never had a decision. I am straight up Monotheistic all the way, baby! None of that new age pantheistic mumbo jumbo for this kid!

This message is a reply to:
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Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 44 (89510)
03-01-2004 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by redstang281
12-12-2001 1:29 PM


Redstang281
Curiosity is good, for a member of the species Homo sapiens. Let's say, for the sake of integrity, that you want to be smart, sapienistic. You hear about this "God" thing, and the smart thing is to see what everyone else thinks, or knows, or has experienced. Ideally, you have noticed some inner questionings about life, odd self-destructive impulses, observations of others or yourself doing really stupid, inexplicable things. You have some moral senses, and conflicts, that make the God issue relevant.
Well, my report is, life is good. I like joy, glory, justice, doing the right thing, pleasure, purpose, laughing and playing with others. And, to get more of these things, I looked into the "God" thing. There are several, some good guys, some bad. The good guys are stronger, and will help make life generally better, but you have to learn to make sacrifices. They only show up by invitation. The bad guys butt in a lot. You have to work to keep them away or powerless.
I don't believe in some all powerful, all-present, all-knowing God. I do believe in a loving Father God, a really wise Mother God, a really friendly brotherly God, a safe shepherd God. All of whom like to talk, if I'll listen. All want me to be loving, just, truthful, joyful, productive, get laid often and happily, eat good, be smart. They appreciate my help putting the bad gods out of work, and in taking care of their stuff.
But that's me. That's my choice. There are plenty of gods out there, and you can choose whichever one you want, to help you be what you choose to be. Or none, if you want to be your own god. In my experience, only the God of Truth and Love is "faithful" or can be counted on to deal justly with you. Cupid will get you laid, then killed.
If you want to choose a god on the basis of truth, you have to have a strategy for truth. Trustworthy authority, good music, science, history, inspiritation or intuition, all of these. Buy the truth. Then you'll know which god, if any, is for you.
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 29 of 44 (89562)
03-01-2004 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Catalyst
02-29-2004 7:39 PM


Great post Catalyst.
I think that the creation story of the Garden of Eden represents mans awakening of conciousness. (This is strictly my own view.) The concept of evil does not exist for animals. IMO. Sometime in human evolution man became concious of good and evil. Free will to do what one wishes is a two edge sword we are free to decide but must act according to what our current "morality " deems is Good. Or be judged as evil. The line between good and evil can be blurred according to what culture and social norms are judging. For example.. at one time it was acceptable to have many wives..or at one time having a 13 or 14 year old wife was acceptable.. or in some parts of Africa cutting the clitoris of young females is just fine. You say its Evil..and I say its ok. Who is right? Disease is evil, but some disease leads to cures. War is evil, but some wars lead to advances in technology and medicine. The list is endless. So did God make evil? No I believe man decided to lable things. Just my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
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Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 44 (89651)
03-01-2004 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by 1.61803
03-01-2004 11:36 AM


Re: Great post Catalyst.
Thats was what i was getting at, because God created freewill, he also created the things that come with it, albeit that these are things that evolved out of human minds/interpretation, utltimatly u cannot say what is evil and what is good.
I liked your analogy of what used to be ok might be abhored now, i like the example of slavery, as i do not take the bible to be literal truth for today, i cannot understand how people can c the bible as being literally what u have to do/be ~ quite obviosly we do condone slavery nowadays and the majority of nations around the world are totally against it, but the bible literally condones slavery and the bad treatment of the slaves, How can this be taken as the literal word of God?
[This message has been edited by Catalyst, 03-01-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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