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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 341 of 1197 (893626)
04-17-2022 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by WookieeB
04-17-2022 5:05 PM


Except, you have #1 wrong.
Except no he doesn't.
Everything that exists has a cause: cause and effect.
Further, everything that has ever or does now exist was caused. Everything.
That is the experience of this universe. No one can show anything different.
Edited by AZPaul3, : re-word

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by WookieeB, posted 04-17-2022 5:05 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 12:03 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 342 of 1197 (893627)
04-17-2022 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by WookieeB
04-17-2022 5:15 PM


No, Sarah has it all quite right. You ID/Creationists are the ones who misunderstand design and complexity.
For all the decades of ID/Creationism you folks have produced no useful effective theory on anything let alone creation.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by WookieeB, posted 04-17-2022 5:15 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-17-2022 7:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 364 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 12:05 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 350 of 1197 (893636)
04-17-2022 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by MrIntelligentDesign
04-17-2022 7:44 PM


Re: Bump: No Help. Let's Try Again
I had already explained this in details in my OP as linked.
That is exactly the problem. Your write-ups are indecipherable. The syntax is obtuse and confusing. Your OP links are no information at all.
What you are admitting, here, MrID, is you do not understand your own speculations well enough to explain them in this setting, to us, the ones you came to for accolades.
If you can't/won't explain then you have nothing to offer.
Why are you always talking about religion in scientific discussion?
Because your goal is to prove god.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-17-2022 7:44 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-17-2022 8:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 352 of 1197 (893638)
04-17-2022 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by MrIntelligentDesign
04-17-2022 7:48 PM


Before you could explain design or non-design, or intelligent to non-, you must define or differentiate the two.
And you have a most powerful alternative for all human knowledge but you can't tell us what it is or how it works. You are not one we will accept definitions from for any concepts, scientific or otherwise.
Why are you always talking about religion in scientific discussion?
Because your goal with this ID crap is to prove god.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-17-2022 7:48 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 356 of 1197 (893642)
04-17-2022 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by MrIntelligentDesign
04-17-2022 8:47 PM


Re: Bump: No Help. Let's Try Again
Why do not rediscover intelligence, write it and submit to science journals, and come back here?
Why would I need to rediscover something already well known to us?
You're the one with the new ID2.0 that's supposed to explain so much, yet you can't even explain what this ID2.0 is or how it works.
I am comfortable with the definitions we already have.
Stop injecting religion in science.
Stop trying to injecting your religiously motivated ID2.0 into a secular reality. You are wasting your time. No one is listening to you, especially since you can't seem to explain anything.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-17-2022 8:47 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-17-2022 9:17 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 362 of 1197 (893648)
04-17-2022 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Sarah Bellum
04-17-2022 9:57 PM


Seems to me that plenty of living organisms do pretty well without intelligence.
Depends on how one defines intelligence. There appears to be a level of intellect in plant communications that may be becoming evident.
Plant communication - PMC

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-17-2022 9:57 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-18-2022 9:50 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 365 of 1197 (893659)
04-18-2022 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by WookieeB
04-18-2022 12:03 AM


Then that means the universe was caused.
That was fast.
What was its cause?
We don't know, yet. We need another 50 - 1,000 +- years or so. Ask me then.
And philosophically, you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. You will have to have a first cause.
I don't know what logic you are using but a causal chain cannot be anything but infinite in an infinite universe.
Remember that following a causal chain is moving backward through time. In this universe we can go back to t=~0. We haven't enough data to look any farther back.
We have no idea what happened prior to t=0. That we don't know means you cannot insist on a first cause. You don't know what causal chain led to this big bang and it may well stretch infinitely back. Back to where the turtles start all the way up.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 12:03 AM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 3:45 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 366 of 1197 (893660)
04-18-2022 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by WookieeB
04-18-2022 12:05 AM


So then define "design" and "complexity" in the context of causes/origins.
1. Oxford English dictionary is good enough for me.
2. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. I don't see any reasoned argument for your BS. I am not compelled to give any arguments against.
3. Fuck you. I don't take assignments from you.
You do the assignment. You want to talk ID? Define your terms.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 12:05 AM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-18-2022 2:04 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 379 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 4:24 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 373 of 1197 (893678)
04-18-2022 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Sarah Bellum
04-18-2022 9:50 AM


I open a new hallway and you go jump out the window. OK.
You do know rocks and stones aren't plants, right. Though they do move, on their own, slowly, very slowly.
Sailing Stones

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-18-2022 9:50 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-19-2022 1:34 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 377 of 1197 (893691)
04-18-2022 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by MrIntelligentDesign
04-18-2022 2:04 AM


So, tell us here, why you are supporting that definition from Oxford, and apply it in Biology?
Have you ever seen a dictionary? A good one? The kind that define multiple nuances of words? Provides scientific meanings for words.
Oh that's right, you were home schooled. You probably can't tell a dictionary from a chick track.
Religion is your goal, though, isn't it? You think you can prove your god by lying about word meanings and fake processes. Your brethren the world over have been trying for millennia and have failed.
But you invented intelligence. Right. So you can correct us all and teach us, IDv2, the one true way.
Except you can't, can you. You have no idea how to explain anything because there is nothing to this ID crap. It's bogus and you cannot show otherwise.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-18-2022 2:04 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 04-18-2022 11:33 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 381 of 1197 (893709)
04-18-2022 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by WookieeB
04-18-2022 3:45 PM


Divine Gradient
So you are acknowledging then that the universe must have a cause.
Yep.
If the universe has a cause, then it also had a beginning. Therefore in what sense is it infinite?
Universe as in our visible universe starting with the big bang or universe as in what came prior which may have a causal chain infinitely into the past?
One has an (almost) identifiable beginning, the other not so much.
It may or may not be that the first cause generated our universe, but that a first cause exists is the only thing that makes sense.
Haven’t you heard? This universe is not required to make sense to Earth monkeys.
Yes, infinite in whatever measure of the universe you choose, means a causal chain uninterrupted into infinity and beyond.
You don’t like this actually plausible infinite causal chain. You let your emotion taint your view of reality.
But as an exercise, let us assume you are right. There is a finite past, and some unknown, unknowable, spark of energy was there uncaused. Same thing you posit for your god, but it is not your god, just an energy gradient. That may be all it takes to set off a whole cascade of universes, so say our equations.
Whichever way you choose to look at it this universe, finite or infinite, with a first cause or without, it most certainly did not require your god to get started.
You can have personal faith that your god did it but that's all it is; your personal faith. That is not the reality.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 3:45 PM WookieeB has not replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 382 of 1197 (893711)
04-18-2022 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by WookieeB
04-18-2022 4:24 PM


I pointed out that she wasn't making a distinction between creationists beliefs and ID.
The differences you allude to are false. You are one in the same. Morally, legally, ethically.
A simple definition of terms to what you are so sure of should be easy.
The problem is ID/creationists are dishonest in their twisted definitions and seek to drag the opponent into a dueling dictionaries rabbit hole as a way of obfuscating their losing stance.
But when asking the same thing of you, instead you turn tail and run.
Turn tale and run? From what? Neither of you have given us anything. There is nothing to run from.
Did you see point 1 in my message? Oxford. Definitions made. Deal with it.
We are not defining anything in this thread until you can raise a consistent cogent understandable position. You're trying to convince us, remember?
I don't think Mr.ID has that capability. Do you understand MrID and this IDv2.0?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by WookieeB, posted 04-18-2022 4:24 PM WookieeB has not replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 397 of 1197 (893749)
04-19-2022 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by Sarah Bellum
04-19-2022 1:34 PM


Rolling Stones
We may never know that. They haven't stopped rolling. They are about to start a two-month European tour.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-19-2022 1:34 PM Sarah Bellum has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 400 of 1197 (893759)
04-19-2022 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by WookieeB
04-19-2022 2:41 PM


Figure out why a causal chain going backwards in some temporal chain infinitely is not logically possible. Use your maths.
Show us.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by WookieeB, posted 04-19-2022 2:41 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 406 of 1197 (893774)
04-19-2022 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by PaulK
04-19-2022 5:17 PM


Thank you.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by PaulK, posted 04-19-2022 5:17 PM PaulK has not replied

  
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