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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 775 of 995 (894110)
05-01-2022 8:00 PM


Limited Nukes?
What is a limited nuclear exchange in this situation?
I can see one if this scenario is allowed to start with the sub-kiloton tactical nukes.
Putin pops a small nuke to stop the Ukrainian army in a small town. 800 dead in the blast with another 1200 to follow within hours from the radiation. Air burst. Minor dusting of fallout.
Though the ground advantage was achieved the nuke was used more for the shock value in the west.
What happens next?
Does NATO stand jaw agape in abject horror with strong letters of official condemnation sent to Moscow, or, something more substantial?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 776 by jar, posted 05-01-2022 8:16 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 780 of 995 (894116)
05-02-2022 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 778 by Percy
05-02-2022 7:54 AM


Re: On Appeasement
Putin Really May Break the Nuclear Taboo in Ukraine - WSJ
This is from Peggy Noonan
Another perspective on nuclear Putin.
quote:
People who have known Mr. Putin have told me I am wrong in my concern about his potential nuclear use in that he knows if he makes one move with such a weapon, Moscow will in turn be reduced to a smoking ruin. But I am reading Mr. Putin as someone who’s grown bored of that threat, who believes he can more than match it, who maybe doesn’t even believe it anymore.
In this view Putin is prepared to go nuclear since he has no military left to fight and his ego will not allow him to lose.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by Percy, posted 05-02-2022 7:54 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 782 by Percy, posted 05-02-2022 12:03 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 786 of 995 (894135)
05-02-2022 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 784 by Percy
05-02-2022 6:47 PM


Re: On Appeasement
But isn't that why we have a State Department, a CIA, an NSA, etc? Shouldn't agencies like the CIA and the NSA been feeding the State Department information that would have led them to a) see the critical role Ukraine plays in western security, and b) that Russia was becoming an increasing threat to Ukraine. Of course, there is the problem that much of Russia's plans reside only in Putin's head.
What makes you think the west was clueless all that time? What makes you think those agencies didn't know or didn't tell? What makes you think the policy at the time was misinformed or uninformed? 20-20 hindsight?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 784 by Percy, posted 05-02-2022 6:47 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 792 by Percy, posted 05-03-2022 9:59 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 787 of 995 (894138)
05-02-2022 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 776 by jar
05-01-2022 8:16 PM


Re: Limited Nukes?
Fortunately there are conventional munitions these days that rival nukes and hopefully any response would be non-nuclear but massive and significant.
The destructiveness of the weapon is not an issue. The Russian has already caused much greater rubble piles and body counts. NATO’s response? Well, you know NATO’s response. More of the same. Send them more guns to go with our thoughts and prayers. You council the same here? The nature of the weapon is not an issue?
This gives Putin free reign to do whatever he wants to the Ukraine with whatever he wants to use. Stalin chose mass starvation. Putin? Nukes, gas, bio, whatever he wants, wherever he wants, whenever he wants as long as he stays in Ukraine. NATO can send bigger and badder guns but Putin is safe. He owns the place. He can flash fry it to crispy critters and NATO can only cry.
Or not.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 776 by jar, posted 05-01-2022 8:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 788 by jar, posted 05-02-2022 8:29 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 789 of 995 (894141)
05-02-2022 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 788 by jar
05-02-2022 8:29 PM


Re: Limited Nukes?
Being that kind of personality I might expect that, having prevailed the first time, Putin might pop another in Ukraine just to emphasize the point that this is his territory. He wouldn't care what NATO does on its side of the border.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 788 by jar, posted 05-02-2022 8:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 790 by jar, posted 05-02-2022 9:28 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 791 of 995 (894147)
05-02-2022 11:22 PM


Gulf of Tonkin
Joint Resolution Submitted
This action, if passed, would set a legal framework for direct war US/Russia in Ukraine.
Big if here. If this is passed as a joint resolution by both House and Senate then the President will have, in our system, legal and justifiable reasons to engage in hostile military action within Ukraine in response to Russian use of nukes and other WMDs.
The type of action would be up to the President. As introduced, the measure would not require any specific restrictions but that could change.
So now there is a quick and easy way for the USofA to clear all the internal national political hoops that might block a more aggressive and timely response ... if ... congress passes the resolution.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 793 of 995 (894154)
05-03-2022 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 792 by Percy
05-03-2022 9:59 AM


Re: On Appeasement
And based on your perfect hindsight you think the west should have done, what? Economic and diplomatic sanctions for Russia having made no move?
What gives NATO the right / authority / justification to police other nations actions pre-emptively? Are you going to pay that $500 fine now for the speeding ticket you might get in 6 months?
What principle of international law conveys such authority?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 792 by Percy, posted 05-03-2022 9:59 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 794 by Percy, posted 05-03-2022 5:02 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 796 of 995 (894161)
05-03-2022 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 794 by Percy
05-03-2022 5:02 PM


Re: On Appeasement
Right now it just looks like your standard "get hyper-aggressive and critical at anything you disagree with."
Of course. I am here to give my opinion, hyper-aggressive and critical as it may be.
You folks know me here. You didn't expect anything different, did you?
What you said was that NATO, the USofA, the world, did not stop a Russian action before it started.
Everyone could see the action unfolding. Everyone know Russia would invade. That is why NATO sent Macron to Moscow back in February. He came back and said, yeah Putin will invade.
By what standard of international conduct, which is supposed to be a big thing in this modern enlightened world, could NATO take unilateral military action or economic and diplomatic sanctions against Russia before it did anything? None.
You would have NATO act unilaterally? On the ground? Back in February? When the Russian military was seen as a world class battle force not the clown car it is showing itself to be? I didn't see NATO even hint in that direction. Why not?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 794 by Percy, posted 05-03-2022 5:02 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 801 of 995 (894171)
05-04-2022 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 797 by Percy
05-04-2022 6:53 AM


Re: On Appeasement
It looks to me that you and others tagged a like on a hateful and abusive post that misrepresented its target.
I can be aggressive, but have no intention to be hateful. You’ve seen me hateful at others and you should know this is not it. Not toward you. Still, having helped in creating this disconnect I'll do what I can to help correct it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Percy, posted 05-04-2022 6:53 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 802 of 995 (894172)
05-04-2022 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 798 by Tangle
05-04-2022 8:39 AM


This, at least is good news.
I'm wondering if China is as surprised by NATO's display of back bone as Russia?
The global success of this US-led action may give pause to Chinese thoughts on Taiwan.

Edited by Admin, : Fix quoting. Must be a bug, wonder what went wrong


This message is a reply to:
 Message 798 by Tangle, posted 05-04-2022 8:39 AM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 817 of 995 (894525)
05-18-2022 9:35 PM


NATO (USofA) Moves In Sweden
Smart move. Individual military alliances until the bureaucrats get their thing together.
The Pentagon has offered Sweden security measures as its NATO application is pending, a Swedish minister says.
Quick action now puts even more world political pressure (let alone military) on Tzar Vladimir the Condemned.
Putin has just been shown the finger ... wrapped in armor.

Edited by AZPaul3, : title


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 818 by ringo, posted 05-19-2022 11:50 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 824 of 995 (895039)
06-06-2022 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by ringo
06-06-2022 12:17 PM


Re: How seriously are we taking what Putin says these days?
Can you get CBC news where you live?
Interesting. Have you any comparisons to others? BBC World, PBS, BBC America, OAN?
Serious, would your recommend them as a viable source?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by ringo, posted 06-06-2022 12:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 825 by ringo, posted 06-06-2022 12:39 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 826 of 995 (895047)
06-06-2022 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 825 by ringo
06-06-2022 12:39 PM


The News
I do BBC, PBS, and yes I admit some CNN, for most TV news. During the day as I peruse these haunts I usually have Comet TV with the likes of Bradbury Theater or The Outer Limits on in the background.
Though I know of some that absorb their news from the twilight trance of shared universal consciousness they experience before waking from an afternoon nap, I've seldom found such news comforting so I ignore it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by ringo, posted 06-06-2022 12:39 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 870 of 995 (895731)
07-16-2022 3:46 AM


New Weapons Lab
The war goes as the world allows it to go.
To me, the military industrial complex centered in the west has themselves the best possible war. Led by a relentless madman (pretty much of their own making) there is now a limited regional conflict involving the best, latest and greatest land war technology modern forces can procure.
Not only are governments politically willing to pay the costs they are willing to fund the new innovations being tested.
Raytheon, BAE Systems, General Dynamics, Thales Group and friends have a continuing flow of revenue providing the expensive, expendable weapons modern militaries need. They also have a ready lab, in a somewhat controlled open territory, in which to test and refine their latest cluster munitions, anti-air/anti-artillery systems, smart munitions, new command and control tech … shoulder-fired battleship killers (wtf?). All on live, or soon not to be live, humans.
Humans have found a new weapons technology playground. We are now testing the latest innovations in the conduct of bloody combat where the destruction, body count, soldier or civilian, is the only metric. Go humans.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 881 of 995 (898224)
09-20-2022 8:59 PM


Donbas
A trap is being rather publicly set in plain view. The Donbas referenda.
Both provinces will, of course, vote (100%) to join with Russia. The Kremlin will consider them as Russian territory. Any Ukrainian push to reclaim it’s Donbas territories will be considered in the Kremlin as hostile Nazi Ukraine invading Holy Mother Russia. Full mobilization, already underway as we have seen, will be the response.
This thing is going to drag out longer and bloodier than it should.
Putin needs to be … retired. In all of Russian history there were only a couple way to retire a Czar. A blade or a bullet. It is well past time for Putin to go.

Edited by AZPaul3, .


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 882 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-20-2022 11:36 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
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