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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 416 of 1197 (894009)
04-28-2022 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by WookieeB
04-22-2022 10:57 PM


Lest You Forget
Message 400
Wookie:
Figure out why a causal chain going backwards in some temporal chain infinitely is not logically possible. Use your maths.
Me:
Show us.
We are still waiting for you to show us how it's done. You can show us the math that proves why it's not possible, right?
A causal chain infinitely into the past is not possible, you say. And you have the math to prove this.
Please, we're waiting. Show us.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by WookieeB, posted 04-22-2022 10:57 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 4:50 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 417 of 1197 (894011)
04-28-2022 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by WookieeB
04-22-2022 10:57 PM


Unanswered
Message 382
Do you understand MrID and this IDv2.0?
Don't turn tail and run. Please answer the question.
A simple 'no' would do. Either that or a lengthy dissertation on what IDv2 is, how it works, that would be good, too.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by WookieeB, posted 04-22-2022 10:57 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-29-2022 4:34 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 431 of 1197 (894062)
04-29-2022 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by WookieeB
04-29-2022 4:50 PM


Re: Lest You Forget
So in PaulK's example, traversing an infinite chain to get a finite is the same as an traversing an infinite ^ infinite chain to get the same finite. So now infinity ^ infinity = infinity = something finite. Absurdity!
Except on my ruler, between 1 and 2 is an infinite set of points. Each of those points is, likewise, infinitely divisible. So, between the 1 cm mark and the 2 cm mark there ∞=∞ divisions resulting in a finite length.
Yes, infinity ^ infinity = infinity = something finite can be done and to posit otherwise is absurd.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 4:50 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 8:37 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 432 of 1197 (894063)
04-29-2022 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by WookieeB
04-29-2022 4:54 PM


Then please show an example.
The point of all this mental masturbation with infinities is you desperately trying to avoid the actual real probability that in your speculations about time prior to t=0 there may be a causal chain extending infinitely into the past. That would preclude the need for your god as some majikal first cause. You cannot insist that a first cause is required, or even likely, or that your flavor of god is that first cause if there is no first cause.
No first cause is required in an infinite universe with all causal chains extending infinitely back in time. No first cause necessary. You lose that justification for your god.
But, as speculation, if a first cause existed then a spark, an energy potential, is infinitely more probable as that cause than some old white guy from some far future planet Earth.
There is no justification, in logic or physics, to posit any god, especially the one you create and operate in your own mind, as a first cause of anything, ever.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 4:54 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 8:51 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 438 of 1197 (894069)
04-29-2022 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by WookieeB
04-29-2022 8:37 PM


Re: Lest You Forget
You do realize that mathematically is infinity ^ infinity = infinity, makes no sense.
Of course it does, if you understand the 'concept' of infinity and not try to treat it like a number.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 8:37 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 439 of 1197 (894070)
04-29-2022 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 436 by WookieeB
04-29-2022 8:51 PM


But as I have been stating, there is no such thing as an actual infinity, back in time. You've admitted the absurdity of it yourself. And if there is no infinite regress in time, then there has to be a First Cause.
Yes, it is absurd. Any discussion of possible events prior to t=0 is absurd. First cause is absurd. Infinite causal chain is absurd. Any proposed attribute of anything prior to t=0 is absurd. Which means ANYTHING is possible and all are equally absurd.
A giant Cthulhu in a yellow polka dotted Nehru jacket and hot pink spiked heels is as plausible as your ape-god as first cause. So is an energy spark. So is an infinite causal chain with no first cause. And all these are just absurd to speculate.
You have no logic, no evidence, no reasoning, creationist twisted as you may be, to insist that a first cause is required to make anything.
You don't know. Nobody does. Absurd, indeed.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 8:51 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 440 of 1197 (894071)
04-29-2022 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 436 by WookieeB
04-29-2022 8:51 PM


There is no justification, in logic or physics, to deny a First Cause (or god)
So a total lack of evidence means nothing to you. Oh, that's right, you're a creationist and evidence means nothing. Along with logic.
If there were justification in logic and physics for your ape/man god then it would have had a part, we would have accounted for it, in our theories.
Guess what? It's not there. Why? Because we have found there is no justification, in logic or physics, to include your religious speculations.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by WookieeB, posted 04-29-2022 8:51 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 448 of 1197 (894262)
05-08-2022 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by WookieeB
05-08-2022 5:54 PM


The universe had a beginning. Most scientists today agree with that. As such, space, time and matter/energy all had a beginning. So the reasoning is that whatever creates the universe would be, among other things, spaceless, timeless and immaterial.
Except the universe may not have had a beginning. The big bang may not have been the beginning. We/you don't know.
Most scientists today agree the universe may indeed be infinite. In both time directions. We/you don't know.
You base your conclusions on unfounded speculations. Your reasoning is faulty.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by WookieeB, posted 05-08-2022 5:54 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by WookieeB, posted 05-18-2022 4:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 449 of 1197 (894263)
05-08-2022 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by WookieeB
05-08-2022 5:54 PM


There is plenty of justification in logic. There is no justification in physics because physics wasn’t a thing when the universe was created. So, you have no theories accounting for it because your theories are incapable to account for it because they deal with something that is unrelated to the subject.
The twisted logic reminds me of recent Russian pronouncements. Stupid.
Of course there is justification for our present understanding of the universe through physics. Physics has developed into the sole method of accurately determining the past, present and future state of this universe. Nothing else even competes.
We have a lot of holes in our knowledge of this universe. Physics is the only way we have to explain the workings of anything and applies to everything. Nothing else, certainly not your psycho-emotional religious fantasies, has ever come close to revealing the operations of anything in this universe. All our knowledge of this universe and everything in it comes from the science of physics.
Your priests don't know anything beyond their emotional speculations. Your 'beginnings' are mere speculations and your god is not logically required.
If you insist on speculating a first cause, think something more realistic like an energy differential, a spark, not some ape-man god floating in nirvanah beyond the reach of reality.
If you care to be a believer of fantasy stories you are most certainly free. Just understand that your religious bullshit is not reality. Physics is.

Edited by AZPaul3, .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by WookieeB, posted 05-08-2022 5:54 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 460 of 1197 (894522)
05-18-2022 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by WookieeB
05-18-2022 4:14 PM


Except the universe probably had a beginning. The big bang likely was the beginning. We/you don't know that it wasn't.
This is science, not your intellectually deficient religion. We don't go after and dwell on the "what wasn't". The only thing that matters is what the universe shows us in observation.
I’ll say this slowly because you may find this deeper than your intellect can easily take you.
The science consensus is that the big bang MAY (note the MAY) be the start of time, the start of the universe. We also acknowledge that it may not be the start of time, the start of the universe.
These are real scientists and they realize that WE DON’T KNOW.
That’s the part you sloppy minded religionists gloss over like so many other inconvenient facts. You take that ignorance and fashion a bloody violent universal ape-god monster for the universe. The speculation that this universe may have a beginning is what you use to conjure your ape-man-god. The FACT that this universe may be infinite rips those religious requirements to shreds.
But why would a spark or an energy differential be any better of an idea than an ape-man god (which I never mentioned anyways). There are no physics ‘before’ the beginning to rely on, so you cannot appeal to that.
Oh god. You idiot. Of course there is physics. Always has been. Always will be. If anything happens, then physics (whether Earth Monkeys are aware of it or not) did it. Not your ape-man god.
Even prior to the big bang and after the heat death of the universe where some new physics of which we are presently ignorant will prevail, physics is the operation of the Universe. Physics is everything, everywhere and for all time.
Philosophically, if one is stating that space, time, and matter/energy began at time=0 …
This is why philosophy is totally useless. Philosophically, one can say that space, time, and matter/energy are infinite manifestations of our infinite universe. Philosophically, one can say the universe was dropped from the cosmic egg as Raven caught it.
The only philosophy worth the time of human contemplation is the philosophy of actual discernable fact. If what you posit is not verified, bona fide, evidenced with demonstrable fact then you philosophize in nothing but a deep bag of shit.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by WookieeB, posted 05-18-2022 4:14 PM WookieeB has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 506 of 1197 (901550)
11-10-2022 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by MrIntelligentDesign
11-10-2022 8:43 PM


Evolution is wrong and proven wrong ...
BS. What is this proof? Bring it here and show it to me.
And some link to a self-serving religious tirade will not suffice. Bring it here. Explain it. Show me.
Feel free to be verbose.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-10-2022 8:43 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 516 of 1197 (902050)
11-17-2022 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by MrIntelligentDesign
11-17-2022 4:13 AM


... for they assumed that Evolution is correct.
... for we know evolution is correct. We know this as sure as humans can know anything since we hold the preponderance of the evidence.
In fact, in this case, we hold ALL the evidence since you are unable to show any for your side.
Evolution is real for it is only evolution that has shown it can produce the long chains of evidence we see leading to the great diversity of life on this planet. There is no evidence of anything in second place.
And you cannot show otherwise.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-17-2022 4:13 AM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 523 of 1197 (902124)
11-17-2022 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 522 by MrIntelligentDesign
11-17-2022 8:25 PM


Your ID is bogus. It is a stage for charlatans to dupe the religiously gullible. It is also intellectually vacuous and your mechanisms physically impossible.
You're a scam artist. A purveyor of serpentes lipophilic ointments intent on deceit.
You can not show a viable process or any objective criteria. You have nothing but subjective religiously motivated definitions for your criteria. You perform not but logically and physically flawed subjective analyses based on your own personal incredulity.
You are an intellectual fraud.
Consequently, your conclusions are demonstrably false and your intellectual level is rated at that of the flat earth cultists ... irrationally stunted and observably stupid.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-17-2022 8:25 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Dredge, posted 01-07-2023 12:29 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 529 of 1197 (902382)
11-23-2022 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by MrIntelligentDesign
11-23-2022 3:05 AM


But what is the dividing line between intelligent to non-intelligent?

Where is the line and what is the criteria?
This is your show. You answer these questions.
Where is the test to show the claim from Evolution?
Since evolution is so well established as the reality on this planet (see the preponderance of the evidence) we can truncate the test easily. If it's a living thing on this planet then it was the product of evolution.
If you care to present an alternative then stop criticizing evolution and build your case. We're not here to watch you gnash your teeth over evolution. We're here to debunk your New Improved ID v.2 whatever the hell that is.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-23-2022 3:05 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-23-2022 6:25 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 532 of 1197 (902386)
11-23-2022 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 530 by MrIntelligentDesign
11-23-2022 6:25 AM


So, where is the criteria and its test from Evolution about the dividing line between intelligent and not?
See Message 529
Reading comprehension problem. Again, this is your show. You answer the question.
What are your criteria for intelligence? Not being a religious freak has got to be one of them, right?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 11-23-2022 6:25 AM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
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