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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
Right on, brother! Why can't those idiots get it right?!
You just touched on a pet peeve and wish of mine: Believers should learn what their beliefs are and where they came from (ie, what they are actually based on).So many believers actually think that their beliefs come from the Bible even though that is not true.
That's because not everything is in the Bible.
What we encounter all the time are "believers" who believe in things that aren't even in their religion.
Horrendous.
I think that every believer needs to study his religion as thoroughly as possible, which must include learning the history of individual beliefs.
Ain't that the t-r-u-t-h! Reminds me of John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a Anglican priest and theologian who set out to study the history of the early Church to disprove the Catholic claim that she is the very same Church set up by the apostles. After studying Church history, Newman became convinced that the claim of the Catholic Church is correct - it is the true, apostolic Church.Newman then converted to Catholicism, was ordained a priest, rose to the rank of Cardinal and was canonised as a Catholic saint in 2019. Newman famously said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant."
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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"To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant." That's not the way I remember it. "To be deep in religion is to cease to be human." I may be wrong but I believe that this is the proper quote.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
This is right up there with your best work; no doubt about it. Well done. That's not the way I remember it. "To be deep in religion is to cease to be human." I may be wrong but I believe that this is the proper quote. Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, .
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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Who? Bruise Willis?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
And yet Peter denied Jesus three times. How does that demonstrate infallibility?
Peter received the divine powers of authority and infallibilitywhen Jesus gave him the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" and told him, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt 16:19) Dredge writes:
But He didn't overturn the truths that He had explicitly told them - e.g. the instruction to give up everything they had.
Jesus told the apostles, “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of t-r-u-t-h comes, he will guide you into all the t-r-u-t-h " (John 16:12-13). Dredge writes:
Again, He did not overturn the instructions He had already given.
In other words, Jesus did not reveal all his teachings when he was on earth. Rather, the Holy Spirit revealed them to the Church later, in the fullness of time. Dredge writes:
And you're claiming that the early churches, set up by the apostles themselves, were not faithful to the teachings of Christ? The Church is the "fullness" of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) and teaches the faithful the knowledge and doctrines of God (Eph 4:11-14). Therefore the Catholic Church's teachings are the teachings of Christ. Who killed Ananias and Sapphira?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Now you do. ringo writes:
I didn't know that. For the same reason that "thou shalt not steal", etc. became untenable - believers preferred to believe in the voodoo aspects of Christianity - e.g. the resurrection - and avoid the practical aspects - e.g. loving their neighbors."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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What's so funny is that Ephesians are
Edited by jar, : fix wordling My Website: My Website
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
"The Bible is true, even when it contradicts itself."
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
"The Bible is true, even when it contradicts itself." quote
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
With devastating arguments like that you could destroy Christianity.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Then you have no objection to the fact that it wasn't Peter but Paul that formed and led the catholic church. Your first pope wasn't a fisherman after all. He was a state prosecutor.
An omen of what would come.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Paul was simply one of the charter chapters of Club Christian. Each of the many different churches were separate and independent and it was Peter that is alleged to have been the leader of the Church in Rome. Paul organized quite a few other chapters of Club Christian and until very near their deaths Paul & Peter were not quite in agreement about almost anything.
It was a couple centuries before the Church in Rome was considered as much more than simply 'the first among equals'. But the Roman Catholic Church was not a creation of either Peter or Paul but rather a political creation of Constantine and only about 300 years after either Peter or Paul.My Website: My Website
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul writes:
Sorry, but you've got your wires crossed. Galatians 2:1-9 clearly demonstrates that, not only was Paul not the leader of the Church, but that he was under the authority of Peter and the apostles: Then you have no objection to the fact that it wasn't Peter but Paul that formed and led the catholic church. Paul was sent by the Holy Spirit to the Church leaders in Jerusalem to give account of what he had been preaching. The leaders (including Peter, James and John) subsequently approved Paul's preaching and extended to him "the right hand of fellowship". Acts 15 also clearly demonsrtates that Paul was not the leader of the Church: Firstly after having a disagreement with certain Jewish Christians, Paul went to the Church leaders in Jerusalem to have the matter settled (v.1-2).Secondly, at the following Jerusalem Council, Paul's role was minor and he made no doctrinal decision. In fact, it was Peter's doctrinal decision that settled the debate on whether or not Gentile believers must follow the law of Moses.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
This is nonsense. There is nothing in the books of Acts that suggests "the many different churches were separate and independent". On the contrary, Acts describes a Church that is a single, discrete organisation led by and under the authority of Peter and the apostles. Each of the many different churches were separate and independent
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