The War in Europe

There’s not a lot of space between them. And LNA seems closer than most - note how he often attacks Republican politicians seen as being disloyal to Trump. Big, big clue to his sympathies.

Of course he doesn’t link to the article. He wouldn’t want you to read it. He got all pissy about the 538 article when I pointed out the bits he didn’t want anybody to know about.

hereThe Russian state is clamping down hard on criticism. Fear is in the air. The effects of sanctions will hurt. Some are leaving, to get away from the looming tyranny. Even if the war stops, even if sanctions were lifted Russia is in a bad place.

The way he wants to murder anyone who says anything he doesn’t like fits.The lying to justify it also fits.He’d have loved Beria.The mass murder is probably part of the appeal.

Hitler always planned to attack the Soviet Union. Stalin couldn’t have stayed out of it. The US propped up the Soviet Union (and others) through the Lend-Lease program - and that started before Pearl Harbour and US entry to the war. Wikipedia discusses this and these quotes seem relevant: — Nikita Khrushchev — Marshal ZhukovI think that continued British resistance was also important. Without opposition from British and Commonwealth forces - and without any reason to invade Britain - more German forces would have been available for the Eastern Front.The Soviet Union played their part in the war, but I think that they were more saved than saviours.

I rather doubt that the Finns would have turned to fascist aid without the threat from the Soviet Union, which I remind you was a murderous oppressive tyranny. Finland itself wasn’t fascist.

quote:

---

Would the west have won the war without Russia?

---

Possibly. It would have been harder.

quote:

---

You are using Stalin's plans for Russian economic growth as evidence that the West helped him.

---

A complete and utter and knowing falsehood. I am using the fact that the Soviet Union relied on war aid from the US to survive. As admitted by Krushchev, Zhukov and apparently Stalin himself. Aid that started before the attack on Pearl Harbour brought the US formally into the war. It had nothing to do with Stalin’s plans - it was instituted by the US.But of course you don’t like that truth.

I’d heard that there was a rumour that #TzarVladimirtheCondemned had been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.

quote:

---

Finland was the one attacking Germany.

---

Not in 1939

quote:

---

Finland outlawed the Communist party.

---

Because they started a civil war, remember?

quote:

---

Finland was close to Germany BEGORE the 1939 Winter War.

---

Lots of countries thought they could do deals with the Nazis. And Finland was short of other allies against the Soviet threat.Not to mention the fact that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact gave the Soviet Union permission to invade Finland.

quote:

---

Everything I just said predated the Russian invasion, known as the Winter War.

---

Which isn’t that relevant.

quote:

---

Finland was ALREADY trying to take back Karelia, from Russia. I showed pre-Winter War evidence of that, and the evidence went all the way up to May of 1939.

---

Oh yes, fighting to liberate a minority people from their imperialist oppressors. I thought you were claimed to be in favour of that.

quote:

---

Finland refused to give up strategic areas it owned.

​

The Winter War was as much Finlands fault, or more.

---

So it’s Finland’s fault for not submitting to the imperialist oppressors.Not buying it. It’s just an excuse for war.

quote:

---

Russia signed the deal with Germany in August (every person on Earth knew it would only delay the certain future war between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia).

---

Which doesn’t at all change the fact that it gave the Soviets permission to invade Finland.

quote:

---

Stalin wanted Finland to swap a bit more than 5% of its land, in return for Russian territory.

---

And Finland was free to refuse the deal. Why should more Finns be subject to the imperialist oppressors?

quote:

---

(Finland got a generous deal when Lenin granted Finland independence in 1917, and Russia never oppressed Finland! Not Soviet Russia, anyway)

---

You’ve argued otherwise. “Accept the deal we offer or we’ll declare war” is oppression, and you support that.Besides you are ignoring the Soviet oppression of Finns in East Karelia.

Yes. Because they needed allies against the Soviet Union. Moose has already covered that one.Now why don’t you explain why a neo-Nazi wrestler coming from Finland to the US in 1993 justifies the Winter War. I’d love to hear why you used that argument.

quote:

---

Finland was a German (essentially Nazi) ally BEFORE the Sugust, 1939 deal between Hitler and Stalin.

---

Hardly. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact left Finland to the Soviets.

quote:

---

Finland wanted Russian territory before the Hitler/Stalin deal.

---

Well before.

quote:

---

And the area East Karelia was always Russian territory.

---

When it wasn’t Swedish.

quote:

---

Ethnic Finns only recently arrived there, and it was not due to Finns fighting Russia. Finns were fighting someone else, when there was a migration to the land.

---

Really? The only evidence of that I can find is of Finns arriving in the Ingria region in the 17th Century. The population of Karelia at the end of the first millenium was Finnic.

quote:

---

You are a westerner who brings all types of prejudice into every storyline. You are not alone in distorting history

---

Says the guy who regularly makes false accusations, and uses them to justify his wish to murder those who oppose his falsehoods.(ABE) and here’s an example of you attempting to distort history: Message 302

quote:

---

You find MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more "serious history" claiming Stalin wanted to make Finland a "Soviet Republic" (despite every single secret document showing that Stalin wanted Finland to be a democracy, and outside of Russia)

---

I think that the various Warsaw Pact states illustrate Stalin’s idea of “a democracy outside of Russia”.

quote:

---

Try finding any information, online, about Franz Halder having a relationship with Finland in 1939.

---

In 1939? I doubt that there would be much. Operation Barbarossa planning did not start until 1940. It is easy to find information on Halder and Finland’s participation in that.

quote:

---

All historical obsessions start after the Winter War.

---

Yours, maybe. For instance your neglect of Sweden’s involvement in the region.

quote:

---

The fact that Stalin defends Russia in the Winter War (1939 to 1940) has nothing to do with any action Finland took in 1941.

---

As you’ve already admitted Stalin wanted more than defence from the Winter War - which was a Soviet attack on Finland. The land taken from Finland in that war was certainly one of the motivations behind the Continuation War. Indeed the very name indicates a relationship between the two conflicts.Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

Looks like nonsense to me.Fiat currencies haven’t collapsed. Government has other tools - like interest rates. Unfettered “free” markets are a bad idea anyway - not that we can expect a libertarian to admit that. We need a degree of regulation, taxation and controls.
(Consider the issues of insider trading and monopolies for instance).The idea of gold being “good” is equally silly. The value of gold is hardly less artificial than that of fiat currencies.

The BBC has the story on the MoskvaThe Russians aren’t explicitly saying the ship wasn’t hit by one or more missiles. But even if it was an accident, losing their flagship isn’t good for them. (And if it wasn’t it’s worse).

BBCThe final decision is not due until Sunday, but this is a significant pointer

Finland is applying to join NATO and Sweden has decided to follow suit.This is another blow for Putin, although a predictable one. With an aggressive neighbour joining a defensive alliance is obviously a good idea. And threats from that neighbour are at least as much an incentive as a deterrent.