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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
AZPaul3 writes: Do you really think your bible has any legitimacy at all? It doesn't. Well, since you know all things, so you must (be) right. You should keep that fact utmost in your mind as you venture into these discussions.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Sounds more like the janitor than the head. Jesus gave "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" to one man - Peter - thereby making Peter the head of the Church. (Matt 16:18-19)"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Btw, what is your understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility?quote Dredge writes:
Doctrines are generally designed to be unassailable, even if they're nonsensical. The doctrine is a dogma after all. ... even if Peter denied Jesus in the same way after the day of Pentecost, that wouldn't contradict the doctrine. In any case, it seems like an odd choice to give a serial denier the keys to the cookie jar. But then Jesus was not infallible, was He? He could easily make a fallible decision about infallibility.
Dredge writes:
Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22.
When did Jesus give the instruction that all his followers must give up everything they have? Dredge writes:
Very good.
God killed Ananias and Sapphira. Why did He kill them?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The greatest among you will be a servant...maybe he WAS the Janitor.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Dredge writes: Jesus gave "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" to one man - Peter - thereby making Peter the head of the Church. (Matt 16:18-19) Naturally the community of the church founded by Peter would write an account establishing their church as the one true church ordained by God. The accounts written by other communities say no such thing. That you cite one book of the Bible while ignoring the silence of all the rest is telling.
Violent, hateful and pitifully inhumane. Catholic. You sound pretty adept at the hate game yourself. You're in essence saying, "You're as hateful as me," in response to AZPaul3 effectively making the point that yours is a Paulene church. You agree to the hate but ignore the main point. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Dredge writes: jar writes: Phat, I'm simply reporting what is actually written in the Bible stories. In the stories Jesus told his disciples that the End Times would be during their lifetime. Time passed. All the first crop of disciples was dying off yet there was no End Times or signs of End Times. Jesus prophesy failed. Where is that prophesy of Jesus in the Bible? Jar's reply wasn't specific, but I think he means Matthew 24 where Jesus relates many prophecies and then says:
quote --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
CS Lewis reckons it's the most embarrassing verse in the bible. Then he goes on to hand wave it away.
“Say what you like,” we shall be told, “the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.” It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible. The most embarrassing verse in the BibleJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
I most certainly will keep that fact in mind. You should keep that fact utmost in your mind as you venture into these discussions. The more of your posts I read, the more I'm convinced you're some kind of man-god or god-man. Have you ever thought of starting your own cult?Edited by Dredge, .
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Not "a" servant, YOUR servant:
The greatest among you will be a servant...quoteAnd it does on: quoteWatch the Pope humble himself. And it still goes on:
quoteWoe unto you exclusivists who shut up the kingdom of heaven against men. Edited by ringo, . "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Have you ever thought of starting your own cult? Yes. And I have tax-free status. Would you like to join? Do you have $1000 and a PayPal account? It's tax deductible. But that's not all. Join now and receive an additional membership for half price.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined:
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AZPaul3 writes:
You betcha! All the other cults I joined turned out to be duds, but I've got a real good feeling about you. You're bloody awesome!
Yes. And I have tax-free status. Would you like to join? Do you have $1000 and a PayPal account?
Yes and yes! But I want to give you more than $1000 ... is that okay?
It's tax deductible.
The good news just keeps coming!
But that's not all. Join now and receive an additional membership for half price.
Wow, this sounds too good to be true! If I pay for my friend, can he join also? He's even dumber than I am, so he could really use your super-human wisdom, knowledge and guidance.Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined:
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Dredge writes:
When did Jesus give the instruction that all his followers must give up everything they have?ringo writes:
Simply from a practical point of view your interptetation of those verses makes no sense. For example, where would Christians live if they gave up all their possessions? How could they pay the rent?
Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22.A Christian can't own even a frypan or a knife and fork? A Christian can't own a radio or a phone or a bicycle or a car? Can a Christian own a towel? What about a pencil? How would Christians be able to raise children if the parents give away all their possessions? A Christian can't own a business? ringo writes:
In Matt 19:21, Jesus says "If you would be perfect, sell what you possess and give it the poor". So Jesus is in effect saying "ideally, this is what you should do", because that particular man he was speaking to had a particular problem - he loved money more than he loved God (it is also an allusion to the vow of poverty that all Catholic priests will take later on in the history of the Church). In the following verses Jesus talks about how the love of money is a danger to salvation. Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22. In the parallel passage in Mark, Jesus warns those "who trust in riches" - ie, those who make money their god. To interpret Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22 as "Jesus says all his followers must give away all their possessions and live in poverty" is a stupid and incorrect exergesis.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
what is your understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility?ringo writes:
There's a bit more to it than that. Tell me, if the Pope goes out and rob banks and rapes altar-boys and becomes a serial killer, does that mean he has contradicted the Catholic dogma of Papal Infallibility?
quote"the pope when he speaks ex cathedra is preserved from the possibility of error on doctrine "initially given to the apostolic Church and handed down in Scripture and tradition". Wikipedia
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
There's a bit more to it than that. If the Pope goes out and robs banks and rapes altar-boys and becomes a serial killer then he is just being a catholic pope; the usual covetous overlord of the masses. Papal Infallibility does not cover your High Priest’s physical actions but only his pronouncements on dogma. Now if your infallible high priest were to declare that fiddling altar-boys is a sanctified holy rite reserved to ordained clergy then that would be an infallible pronouncement of doctrine not open to question by any mortal spirit. I'm surprised your pope hasn't tried that as a way out of this sex-scandal mess.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
It isn't an "interpretation". It's word-for-word what Jesus said.
Simply from a practical point of view your interptetation of those verses makes no sense. Dredge writes:
1. It was Jesus who said it, so ask Him. Do you think He was an idiot, expecting his followers to do the impossible? For example, where would Christians live if they gave up all their possessions? How could they pay the rent? 2. The disciples did exactly what Jesus said. They relied on Him to provide food and a place to sleep. 3. The early church did exactly as Jesus said: Acts 4:34-35 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Dredge writes:
Every Christian doesn't need his own frypan. He can donate it to the communal kitchen where everybody can use it.
A Christian can't own even a frypan or a knife and fork? Dredge writes:
Cummunal living-room.
A Christian can't own a radio or a phone... Dredge writes:
Communal transport pool.
... or a bicycle or a car? Dredge writes:
See above - and use your head.
Can a Christian own a towel? What about a pencil? Dredge writes:
That question is especially egregiously silly. Does every parent own their own school?
How would Christians be able to raise children if the parents give away all their possessions? Dredge writes:
A Cristian community can own a business.
A Christian can't own a business? Dredge writes:
Well, no. Jesus was answering the direct question, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" It was a requirement for eternal life.
In Matt 19:21, Jesus says "If you would be perfect, sell what you possess and give it the poor". So Jesus is in effect saying "ideally, this is what you should do"... Dredge writes:
So does Phat. So do you, it appears. it's a pretty common problem.
... that particular man he was speaking to had a particular problem - he loved money more than he loved God... Dredge writes:
Exactly.
(it is also an allusion to the vow of poverty that all Catholic priests will take later on in the history of the Church). Dredge writes:
So you know better than the early church? It's what they did. Ananias and Sapphira were killed for not doing it. To interpret Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22 as "Jesus says all his followers must give away all their possessions and live in poverty" is a stupid and incorrect exergesis."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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