Anti-theist

I never said you did. I said only that IF the State (or Federal Government) has any illusions about a necessary bail-in to "save" the economy they would have NO RIGHT to do so. Thats all.
(And im thinking that in an emergency YOU would support such a thing!) Again I ask you to whom we would give everything (materialistic) up? I certainly don't trust either the apologists OR the government.As for helping family, neighbors in need, and people in general, I could do. What puzzles me is how you claim on the one hand that Jesus wants us to give it ALL up and yet reassure me that I wouldn't be homeless. It takes money to pay rent.And would Jesus not allow us to have a car?

Jesus would make sure that if you did what he says, one way or another you'd be fine.Or don't you believe in Jesus?

Well, what did Jesus have to say about that? Christians believe that the Gospels do report what Jesus actually said (don't they?), so from Matthew 6 (King James Version -- quoting the full passage in order to preserve context):

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6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate
the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one,
and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

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6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life,
what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your
body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and
the body than raiment?

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6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither
do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father
feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

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6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto
his stature?

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6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies
of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they
spin:

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6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his
glory was not arrayed like one of these.

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6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field,
which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall
he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?

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6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat?
or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

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6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for
your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these
things.

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6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his
righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

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6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow
shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto
the day [is] the evil thereof.

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Which master do you serve, God or Mammon? Despite your repeated protestations that you believe in and serve Jesus and that He is your personal friend, you clearly serve Mammon.If you did actually serve God and believe in Jesus (wherein "believe in" implies having full trust in God and in Jesus), then you would give no thought to nor lust after worldly goods. Instead, you would trust in God providing for you, exactly as Jesus himself said in Matthew 6:24-34.Or don't you believe what the Bible clearly says? Don't you trust God and Jesus to keep their word? Do you in truth not actually believe in God and Jesus? "O ye of little faith"! (Matt 6:30)Of course, we atheists do not put our trust in the gods (AKA "we do not believe in them"). We atheists recognize reality and plan accordingly. Just as you persist in doing in direct conflict with your professed religious beliefs.Does that mean that you are secretly an atheist? A closeted atheist? Why would you want to pretend to be a Christian? Come out of the closet! 
I've posted this old joke before:

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One day while hiking through the mountains, a Christian falls off a ledge and is able to grab a tree root to stop his fall, but now he is stuck hanging there.

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So he cries out to God to save him. The clouds part and a Divine Voice tells him, "Have faith in me and let go!"

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Stunned, he thinks for a moment and then cries out, "Is there anyone else up there? I'd like a second opinion!"

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Then why do you bring it up at all? It has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about. Nonsense. The government certainly does have the "right" to tax you - and you have an obligation to render unto Caesar. In an emergency, the government has the right and the obligation to fix things. Any sensible person would support that. What's YOUR plan? Shoot your way out of floods, famine and pestilence? I have answered that soooooo many times. Don't you read my posts at all? You certainly DO trust the apologists. Otherwise, why would you parrot their bullshit? It's JESUS who promises to take care of you:

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Luke 12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:

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17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

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18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.

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19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

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20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

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21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

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22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.

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23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

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24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

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25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

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26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

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27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

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28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

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29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

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30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

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31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

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32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

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33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

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34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

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I don't doubt that Jesus is real. I doubt whether I have the guts to take the plunge. And I'm certain that He understands my weakness and my reluctance. He is not a static character in a book who has given all of us marching orders and disqualifies anyone who is not all-in. You guys can scoff and believe what you want. None of you even believe that He once existed. Fewer still believe that He is alive today eternally. And you find it incredible that I don't fully trust myself in regards to listening. Guilty. Now what? Am I waiting for Jesus to disown me? Would you be? The error is that jar has convinced everyone that Christianity is all about what we DO and that I refuse to DO as ordered. I am far from an atheist. I don't hang my hat on objective evidence, at least in this issue. The issue is how much they have a right to. ALL of it? Anything over $100,000.00? (I would be safe in that case)Do you even know what a Bail-In is?

If that's what we decide.The 16th Amendment declared that all income generated in the USofA (not net worth but annual income) is the property of the people and each year the people, acting through our representative form of government - the congress - tells you how much of our common income that you generated we will allow you to keep.Right now I would guess an effective rate of about 11-15% of your our income is what we take leaving you the rest.If we the people decide through our elected officials to keep 15-20%, or maybe 55-60%, of the common income that you generate, are you going to say no? Based on what? Based on the right to an income you don't own?And your employer? Will they say no on your behalf and not allow that amount of withholding from your check? Probably not.You don't own your labor. Officially, legally, society does.Ok, I lied. Your labor, you own. The income from that labor, however, no, not so much. In fact, not any.

No, jar has not convinced me of that. Reading the gospels convinced me of that.And I was very disappointed as a teenager, when I discovered that Christianity as practiced is chock full of hypocrisy.

You're saying that you believe in an idea but not enough to believe that's it's actually true. That's fair enough, that's sane. But you know, there's a cock crowing isn't there? You must know that this is just an excuse? You know what he wants of you but you don't do it because it's obviously mad. Your belief is bounded by your own reality. I don't blame you at all, it's perfectly human, as is believing (a bit) in fantasy saviours. What we believe is irrelevant isn't it? No, not at all. You'd be utterly stupid to follow his teachings that way. We're just pointing out that your belief isn't actually very convincing even to yourself. It's a convenience.

See, this is why people keep asking you if you' ve ever read the Bible.

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Revelation 3: 15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

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It isn't about trusting yourself. It's about trusting God. No it isn't. The issue here had nothing to do with what the government takes. I know it has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.

The issue has everything to do with the hook I *should be* on and the lack of such a hook for you, Tangle, and dwise1.
Thus I bring up the government as the alternative hook which you likely would ALL support and how I would fight it.Liberals like government. Conservatives are the ones who say let the dollar crash as we have our own alternative ways out of the mess. We owe *everybody* nothing as they owe us nothing. I say let the free enterprise run the show rather than mandatory government solutions. They have not worked yet.Stay tuned and we will talk about this crisis as it unfolds in 2022-2023.The Federal Reserve has put everyone in mandatory checkmate. I won't trust the government to fix it. As for Jesus, I pray He does not give up on me for my refusal to trust Him with all I have.

Jesus and what he wants of you is an afterthought isn't it? Secondary to all your real-world fantasy bollox of governments, money, liberals, apocalyptic thinking etc etc.Praying is the escape, the cop-out for lack of real belief. Praying doesn't excuse you Phat.

Can you name some other entity that can provide all the services that a society needs to function, than a government organized by the people? And in the past 40 years the only single thing they have done is tax breaks for the wealthy and big corporations. Name a single other action by the conservatives. So, you think the wealthy and corporations rigging the laws that govern every aspect of our economy in their favor, is free enterprise?It has never fucking occurred to you to fix the the way government works, you just want to destroy it.Well fuck you, you anticivilization asshole!

Got better ways to waste my time right now.So then you, O solitary naked ape, can go out into the wilderness and survive all on your own? Really? Let's see you try it!Furthermore, you have a family whose survival depends on you, O solitary naked ape? After all, evolution isn't about the survival of any individual, but rather about the survival of that individual's progeny. What are their chances? Survival of the fittest! So what is fitness exactly? Is it the old poster:

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Lo though I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I shall fear no evil, for I am the meanest SOB in the Valley!

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Nope, not even close!Fitness is the ability to pass your genes on to the next generations. Homo sapiens has obviously proven itself an extremely fit species. So what is the secret to our evolutionary fitness? Society! Our ability to form social groups in which we work together to ensure the mutual survival of as many members of the group as possible. Without that, we would just be easy pickings for any and all predators. 
So then your big plan is for us to completely abandon our most important and successful survival strategy and revert to being solitary naked apes entirely on our own.What a fucking idiot!

Edited by dwise1, : clean-up on quoting aisle

And that has nothing to do with what the government takes. Which has nothing to do with the topic or with anything anybody is talking about, except you. Here's a homework assignment for you: Look up the word "liberal" in the Bible. It might even stop you from using it as a swearword. If that was true, you could call me a conservative. But of course it isn't true. It's wildly false, ridiculously false. Conservatives worship the dollar. Look at yourself. Such as? As I have said before, the ultimate free enterprise is crime.Of course, your conservative buddies are already doing that, stealing every nickel they can get their hands on. Read a book, for God's sake. Have you no inkling of history?It was mandatory government solutions that got us out of the Great Depression, for one blindingly obvious example.Now you give us an example of conservative thievery solving anything. Take that to an appropriate thread. He has already said that He will spew you out of His mouth and you will not have eternal life. Here's another place where He said it:

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Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

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I did my homework out of semi-desperation this morning. I feel like giving up...or giving in. I can't deny the emotions...both of what I read and the rebukes coming from EvC. Why I get so mad at "Liberals" has been partly because I have felt that they (you) were against me and my personal beliefs and expected me to listen to "what Jesus" told me to do. Ironic that this edict comes from a group of unbelievers! I was a bit shocked that such strong reactions were coming at me from some of you. But perhaps I deserved a verbal slap in the face!