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Author Topic:   Is ID falsifiable by any kind of experiment?
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(6)
Message 3 of 507 (898700)
09-28-2022 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by evolujtion_noob
09-27-2022 7:55 AM


On theoretical grounds, the ID proponent could claim, "this couldn't have happened with mutation and natural selection.
No, they claim on religious fantasy grounds that they haven't the intellect to understand the mechanisms involved.
There was an infusion of information from somewhere.
That information was not infused from anywhere. It was evolved by trial and error over many millions of years.
How can we rule out the activity of a designer when there are no limits on how this designer operates?
Easy. First, even the gods must follow the rules. There is no evidence of their work when there should be if they interfered with natural evolution. We would see the disconnects in the lineages and between species.
Second, this designer sucks. The designs look all the world like the ham-fisted glommed-on make-due approach of nature not the sleek intuitive designs of the universe's most intelligent being.
We don't have to rule out anything. Apparently there is nothing there. Until someone shows evidence of this cosmic designer or his works there is nothing to justify the continued insistence on this fantasy.

Edited by AZPaul3, : word


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by evolujtion_noob, posted 09-27-2022 7:55 AM evolujtion_noob has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 10 of 507 (899056)
10-07-2022 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by WookieeB
10-07-2022 8:58 PM


ID About to Fail?
I think you might be confused as to what ID constitutes, as well as what criteria would qualify as something falling under design.
What constitutes ID?
What criteria would qualify as something falling under design?
We have been waiting for the definitive tests of ID's claims for decades. It's about time.
Yes, please answer those questions.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by WookieeB, posted 10-07-2022 8:58 PM WookieeB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by WookieeB, posted 10-11-2022 3:46 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 53 of 507 (903749)
12-16-2022 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-16-2022 3:31 AM


Re: ID About to Fail?
How could a non-guided, non-manipulated COFA. CIFA could arrive and form, say, the eye or ears or nose?
Over many generations of incremental change, that is how. Your personal incredulity is not going to change the fact that it did happen just as a product of evolution.
And don't ask for proof. You knee-jerk deny all evidence regardless.
What is your alternative? Lay out your process. Show us this intelligence behind intelligent design.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-16-2022 3:31 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-16-2022 7:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 56 of 507 (903807)
12-16-2022 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-16-2022 7:09 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
Origin of species or just change of freq alleles (COFA) or change in freq alleles CIFA?
There is no such thing in genetics as COFA or CIFA.
I understood "incremental change" but it is still a "change", and it does not make anything so particular that requires too much attention.
So you don't think incremental change in an organic structure can build a more complex organic structure?
The new ID had solved the definition of intelligence and non-intelligence ...
That dichotomy has still not been resolved. Yours is just another religious attempt to stuff the square peg in the round hole.
and when used in Biology, CIFA and COFA are found to be guided ...
CIFA, COFA are never used anywhere. You can't explain what they are.
The only thing being guided is your fantasy.
So, how about Evolution?
The Science of Evolution is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. You haven't questioned it one bit.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-16-2022 7:09 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-16-2022 7:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 61 of 507 (903825)
12-17-2022 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-16-2022 7:48 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
change in frequency alleles (CIFA) or change of frequency alleles COFA.
CIFA and COFA have no meaning. You cannot describe them.
There are no test nor evidences that "incremental change in an organic structure can build a more complex organic structure", without guided by intelligence, or intention,.
What intelligence? Where? How is this guidance achieved? What is the mechanism?
To Evolution, the topic of intelligence and non-intelligence are not resolved, so, why quickly conclude in Biology about Evolution? That is the very definition of stupidity: quickly conclude without knowing anything.
Makes no sense. Why quickly conclude what in Biology about Evolution?
Evolution is simply CIFA or COFA ...
There is no such thing as CIFA or COFA.
You declare evolution is wrong yet you cannot show anywhere where evolution was wrong about anything. That is stupid.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-16-2022 7:48 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 62 of 507 (903826)
12-17-2022 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-17-2022 12:36 AM


Re: ID About to Fail?
I am not confused on anything.
You are confused on everything. Especially intelligence and evolution. Your ideas are all wrong and mean nothing.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-17-2022 12:36 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-17-2022 7:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 66 of 507 (903878)
12-17-2022 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-17-2022 7:11 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
Before any sane scientist could claim that a change is not-intentional or no intelligence involved in change in/of freq alleles, CIFA/COFA, that sane scientist must have criteria and numerical dividing lines or numerical limits between the two opposing extremes.
Why? Intelligence is a continuum. It is not binary.
Besides, the criteria we use is the evidence. In the entire history of the universe there has never been any evidence of this intelligence you speak of.
CIFA/COFA is bullocks.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-17-2022 7:11 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 12:36 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 67 of 507 (903879)
12-17-2022 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-17-2022 7:13 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
I am perfectly fine since I have the best criteria between intentional CIFA/COFA to non-intentional CIFA/COFA in biological world.
Oh BS. You have NO criteria. You cannot seem to express any and you certainly cannot use any to evidence anything. What CIFA?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 69 of 507 (903886)
12-18-2022 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-18-2022 12:36 AM


Re: ID About to Fail?
That is why Evolution is BS since you are claiming that intelligence is continuum
How do you know it is not? Our evidence indicates it may well be.
There is no evidence for Evolution that you can use as criteria.
The museums, schools, etc, have hundreds of millions of such evidences. Hard physical evidence that you can actually pick up and study.
You ever study a fossil specimen? Have you ever been to a museum or a school?
How can you dismiss such a trove of evidence world wide so casually? What larger numbers of evidence do you show to compete with this? You have none but your fantasy numbers games. No data. No facts. No reality.
Evolution is simply change in CIFA ...
CIFA is undefined so is simply wrong.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 12:36 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 1:43 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 71 of 507 (903888)
12-18-2022 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-18-2022 1:43 AM


Re: ID About to Fail?
No. I'm not going to dig through known available evidence of genetics at work just so you can knee-jerk call it fake.
This isn't our first foray into la-la land with a creationist. You want everyone to show you evidence of evolution while you provide none for your intelligent dingo-daddy or whatever.
You dug this rabbit hole and it's up to you to deliver. What is cifa?
Where is there ANY evidence of this sky dingo-daddy cosmic intellen thing?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 1:43 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 4:50 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 73 of 507 (903896)
12-18-2022 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-18-2022 4:50 AM


Re: ID About to Fail?
Prove it. Show us this intelligence.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 4:50 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 1:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 84 of 507 (903961)
12-19-2022 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-18-2022 1:31 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
Biological science had been reporting that cell, to function well, has seven (7) supports mechanisms or systems, or sometimes I called them, defense or repair mechanisms.
You made this all up from you fantasy. There isn't anything real here.
This is the crux of your design fantasy. What 7 system?
List them. Give support from biology that these systems are as you say. Then for each, what is the measure of intelligence vs natural?
Don't give me any of your crap challenging evolution. Evolution is not the issue here. Either support your ID2.0 or fuck off.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-18-2022 1:31 PM MrIntelligentDesign has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 93 of 507 (904090)
12-21-2022 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-21-2022 5:33 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
AZPaul3 writes:
Don't give me any of your crap challenging evolution. Evolution is not the issue here. Either support your ID2.0 or fuck off.
Religious explanation like Evolution cannot win in science. Reality will prevent it. Now, Evolution ... blah, blah
You can't support your intelligent design. You have nothing.
Your only gig is to try to demean evolution at which you miserably fail. ID2.0 is a farce so you have decided to just fuck off. Typical religious bozo.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-21-2022 5:33 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-21-2022 6:30 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 95 of 507 (904095)
12-21-2022 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-21-2022 6:30 PM


Re: ID About to Fail?
I can support the Intelligent Design
Then you should know the subject, quite well. I asked some significant questions in Message 84. If you know the subject well it should not be much effort to answer those questions here in this thread.
What 7 systems govern cellular organisms? Please list them and give us some reason why these systems are significant. Then explain, a few short paragraphs would do, this rating of the 7 systems that you use to determine intelligently guided versus natural.
You say you know it. Prove it. Here in this forum. Cut and paste from your book but in short paragraphs if you need to.
Start supporting your case by answering the inquiry.
All we see from you is your hate for evolution. That is not a convincing argument. Not convincing support.
No. I will not buy your book.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-21-2022 6:30 PM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-21-2022 7:41 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 97 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-22-2022 4:03 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 99 of 507 (904116)
12-22-2022 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by MrIntelligentDesign
12-22-2022 4:03 AM


Re: ID About to Fail?
I said that cell has 7 Repair Mechanisms, and if you could Google that, you can know them.
I find several DNA repair, several cell membrane repair, several mechanical injury repair, cell plasticity Acetylation regulation and about a dozen more repair mechanisms of known cellular machinery.
You don't know what you're talking about, do you.
AZPaul3 writes:
Start supporting your case by answering the inquiry.
Not gonna happen. You can't do it. You have nothing.
You took all your rejected papers and self-published a book. You're here to push your religious hallucinations already rejected by the scientific community.
What is it with you religious lunatics and the self-publication of your rejected fantasies? You're as much a fraud as Kleinman.
... you will never know intelligence correctly without knowing my discoveries of it. That is for sure.
Yeah, right. My great loss.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-22-2022 4:03 AM MrIntelligentDesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by MrIntelligentDesign, posted 12-22-2022 11:53 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
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