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Member (Idle past 6167 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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Dwise 1, I do read articles from both sides. And yet you remain so profoundly ignorant? That tells us clearly that you do no such thing. Claiming to do something that you do not is an example of what's called lying. Like in Message 482 when you falsely claimed "I know how carbon dating works." If I had a nickel for every time a creationist made that claim, I could go to Vegas and play Video Poker all weekend (not that I would want to do either). Why do creationists insist on making such statements when they are so glaringly false?
A well rounded individual will do this. True enough, but what is that supposed to have to do with you? OTOH, I have read from both sides. I have even sat through several Kent Hovind "seminar" videos, which is how I learned about his utterly bogus solar-mass-loss claim (which is completely refuted just by doing the math, so now he forbids his audience to ever do the math or to listen to anyone who has done the math). As General Sun-Tzu instructs us, we must know both the enemy and ourselves in order to be victorious in battle. That requires learning the enemy's side, but you do not allow yourself to do that. Furthermore, the need to know yourself requires you to know what your side is based on, but you do not allow yourself to do that either. That becomes so glaringly obvious when the most terrifying question you can ever ask a creationist is, "What are you saying?Please explain your claim." I've even seen creationists cancel their email accounts in order to avoid that question. A question that any normal will freely answer, which we have done ... repeatedly, but not you. In public education, the goal of education is that the student understand the subject matter, not that they be required to believe in it. An example was the Air Force Communications Command Leadership School (1982) where we learned what Marxism and Communism is; not to turn us all into Commies, but rather to help us know the enemy (remember, that was during the Cold War). Beneficiaries of public/secular education are able to investigate, research, and learn any subject that might catch their interest or that they might be required to learn about and to do so without any qualms. Such people are truly able to read and learn from both sides of any issue. In sharp contrast, religious education is for the purpose of indoctrination, the purpose of which is to require the students to believe and believe in what is being taught. This perversion of education makes its victims incapable of learning anything else, since they have been made to think that learning something also requires that they believe in it. Quite literally, when I have urged a creationist to study and learn evolution so that he can discover its actual problems instead of the many creationist lies they have been indoctrinated in (and hence develop actual effective arguments instead of repeating stupid ineffective lies), he emphatically refused to do so because "that would require me to believe in evolution!"
You can lay out articles day after day; month after months; and, year after year, but dating methods rely on assumptions. And, assuming something is not science; it is guesswork. What the hell are you talking about? And it has already been explained to you some many times that the next step in starting with an assumption is to test it! Science always tests its assumptions (usually AKA "hypotheses" -- but there are also axioms, mostly in mathematics (so go tell Kleinman that mathematics is bogus because it makes assumptions)). In sharp contrast, creationists never ever test their assumptions! So just what the f**k are you talking about?
It is impossible to determine what the atmosphere was like 5000 years ago. Bullshit! But then that's your profound ignorance speaking. Gas bubbles trapped in glacial ice contain samples of the atmosphere from when they were trapped in the ice. Those have been studied extensively to analyze what the atmosphere was like so many thousands of years ago.
It is impossible to determine what the atmosphere was like prior to the global flood. Well, you do have me on that one. Because your "Global Floodye" never happened! For that matter, the closest thing to a "global flood" started 11,000 years ago when the ice cap from the last ice age started to melt resulting in sea level rising about 200 feet -- and it is still on-going and even picking up steam. Many land bridges disappeared beneath the waves; eg, the Bering Strait, Indonesia (as evidenced by Wallace's Line which explains the biodistribution in those islands), Doggerland which formerly connected England to the Continent. There's also the Persian Gulf which used to be dry land (all depths in the Persian Gulf are less than 200 feet). This next needs to be verified. A YouTube video of Easter eggs to be found in Star Trek episodes points to a graphic of the earth in DS9 in which we can see North America without Florida. [voice=NY_NJ_stereotype_tough_guy]Yo! We got your global flood right here![/voice] Do you have the slightest idea how much carbon was removed from the atmosphere and buried during and after the flood? Same answer: Your silly global flood never existed, so your question is absolutely meaningless. But just for fun, how do you propose that your imaginary floodye would have removed carbon from the atmosphere? Magick? In the meantime, we do know that the amounts of CO2 and C14 have not been constant. We know that from several different lines of evidence, including the gas bubbles trapped in glacial ice. We understand a lot about that, whereas you are forever clueless. Hmm!
I am not the one with the blinders on here, Dwise 1. You are. Classic clueless projection. It is your own choice to use willful stupidity to maintain your willful ignorance. And it will have to be your choice to finally pull your head out and start to learn something. Too bad your sphincter is so tight that it's cutting off the blood supply to your brain.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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candle2 writes: Nwr, the wrong assumption can lead to wrong conclusions. Agreed. However, the assumptions behind radio carbon dating have been thoroughly tested. We understand that you don't like them because they thoroughly refute your YEC beliefs. But your YEC beliefs are only an assumptioin. And his YEC beliefs are not only also just assumptions, but they are assumptions that he stubbornly refuses to ever test. That's the difference between us that he refuses to ever notice. We start with hypotheses (AKA "assumptions") and then we test them as thoroughly as we can. He refuses to ever test his own assumptions or even examine them in any manner. Clearly a case of the pot calling the silverware black.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
My new topic, Radiocarbon Dating Discussion with candle2, has been promoted!
Please move all discussion of radiocarbon dating over to that topic where it will be on-topic. I have reposted most of this traffic over there.
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Pollux Member (Idle past 143 days) Posts: 303 Joined: |
candle2 seems to have gone quiet. He has not answered my questions nor adduced any evidence for distortion of reported evidence of age matters.
I really would like his comments or from any other YEC Away from C14 dating, in recent years there are many reports of high precision dating on : - SIberian Traps to pin down relationship to the End-Permian extinction-Central Atlantic Magmatic province for the End-Triassic extinction - Deccan Traps for relationship to the End-Cretaceous extinction and the Chicxulub meteorite So again, if these reports are not genuine what is going on? What do YECs know that no one else does? Why has no researcher broken ranks to run to CMI et al to blow the whistle that it is all a sham?
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candle2 Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Nwr, there is no way to test past conditions on earth. Period.
Even if we lay assumptions aside, we cannot get past theabsence of transitional fossils. Nor, can we get around the fact that never has life been observed coming from non-life. If I did not want to believe in the God of creation, I wouldstill have no other choice. I am not a big enough fool to believe in an evolutionaryconcept that is filled with more holes than Swiss cheese.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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Nwr, there is no way to test past conditions on earth. Period. You are an ignorant religious simpleton with no conception of physics. Everything that happens leaves its mark on this world. That you're too ignorant of how science works to fathom our accurately revealing the past, even billions of years in the past, is testament to the incompetence of all your knowledge. Yes, we can see the past ... and the future ... and we can manipulate reality to our desires. We are the gods of this world. You are the comic relief.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 9.1
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Even if we lay assumptions aside, we cannot get past the absence of transitional fossils. There are lots of transitional fossils.
Nor, can we get around the fact that never has life been observed coming from non-life. I'll note that no actual god has ever been observed.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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candle2 writes:
The earth itself is a record of its past. Dig a hole and you'll see the record of the latest local flood, the latest volcanic eruption, etc. The number of floods will even give you a pretty good idea about the weather in the past. You'll see the remains of the animals that used to live there, so you'll get a pretty good idea about what they ate, which will also give you an idea about the weather. ... there is no way to test past conditions on earth. And you can learn it by yourself in your own back yard. Avoid those lying creationist websites and learn something.
candle2 writes:
Some liar has told you that. If you did find a fossil in your back yard, how would you know whether it was transitional or not? If you can't recognize a transitional fossil, how can you say there are none?
we cannot get past theabsence of transitional fossils. candle2 writes:
Nor can we see Rome being built. Yet we're pretty sure it was built - and we can get a pretty good idea of HOW it was done. By your logic, there is no way that we could learn anything about ancient Rome.
Nor, can we get around thefact that never has life been observed coming from non-life. candle2 writes:
Neither abiogenesis nor evolution "disprove" God's creation. However, the evidence supports abiogenesis and evolution. There is no evidence that supports God.
If I did not want to believe in the God of creation, I wouldstill have no other choice. candle2 writes:
Swiss cheese is not defined by the holes; it's defined by the cheese. I am not a big enough fool to believe in an evolutionaryconcept that is filled with more holes than Swiss cheese. (Are you a big enough fool to not understand that?)"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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candle2 Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Ringo, you say that Swiss cheese is not defined by the
holes in it; it is defined by the cheese. Evolutionists view evolution in the same way that theysee Swiss cheese. They ignore all of the holes that exist in both. You can talk all you want, but talk doesn't producetransitional fossils. They don't exist. And, you know they don't. If evolution were true, we would have tens, perhapshundreds, of millions of transitional fossils. Even Darwin who laugh at his own concept if heknew what we know today. Even the simple single cell organisms are morecomplicated and complex than the most modern factories. Evolution is impossible.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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If evolution were true, we would have tens, perhaps hundreds, of millions of transitional fossils. We have them. Look at the collections. Look up the numbers. There are 40,000,000 in Smithsonian alone. Add collections around the world and you will find more than 200,000,000. And each one is a transitional fossil.
Evolution is impossible. No, Your god is impossible. Edited by AZPaul3, . Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Pollux Member (Idle past 143 days) Posts: 303 Joined:
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Hi candle2
What was going on in the Earth while Satan was on the throne before Creation week? Have you a text for it? There is abundant evidence for how old Earth is and you produce no evidence contrary. Have you read RAZD's threads on age correlations?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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Evolution is impossible. Completely and utterly false.
Since life exists and does what life does, evolution is inevitable. That is because evolution is the net cumulative effect of life doing what life naturally does. IOW, where there's life there's evolution. The two are inseparable. Or are you instead talking about something entirely different than evolution which you are falsely calling "evolution"? That would explain why nothing creationists ever say about "evolution" ever makes any sense at all. So then, get a clean pair of underwear ready because I'm going to ask you yet again that simple question that all creationists find to be terrifying:
What are you talking about?
More specifically: What do you mean when you use the word, "evolution"? Even the simple single cell organisms are more complicated and complex than the most modern factories. Which is conclusive evidence that those organisms are the result of evolution. That is because evolutionary processes produce very complex results. And whenever are you going to go to the Radiocarbon Dating Discussion with candle2 thread? We're still waiting for you to present any actual problems for radiocarbon dating. Or are you finally conceding that your claims are all false?
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Phat Member Posts: 18652 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Forgive my ignorance, but I never knew that satan ever *had* a throne. In order to have even a metaphorical throne, one must have subjects. Perhaps a case could be made that Satan is the god of this world, but the subjects would acknowledge him as such. satan is at best an unemployed cherub.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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candle2 Member (Idle past 133 days) Posts: 892 Joined: |
Porkncheese, Hebrews 7 records the person called
Melchisedec. He was the King of righteousness. The High Priest of Salem (Jerusalem). Abraham paid one tenth of all he owned (tithe) toMelchisedec. Melchisedec was without father, without mother,without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life. Verse 3. Melchisedec is the same God Being as the Word inJohn 1:1-3, 10, 14. It should be perfectly clear to anyone with a decentdegree of reading comprehension that the Word in John is not only with God, but is God. There has existed from eternity two God Beings. The Savior that we know as Jesus was, before He wasborn of a virgin, known as the Word, as well as Melchisedec. The two God Beings want a family of other God Beings. The Word lay His Devine Essence aside and allowedHimself to be born a man. This is when the Father and Son relationship began. Jesus was aware of His past with God the Father. Forover 33 years these two God Beings, who had always been together, were separated. John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9, and Collosians 1:16 state withwith absolute clarity that Jesus, as the Word, created all things. And, that without Him not anything was made. The Wordwas not created. He was the Creator. The God Being known as the Father is the undisputedleader of the Two. He always has been, and always will be. Jesus, as our Creator, is worth more than all of us. And,only His life could atone for our sins. As a man had Jesus sinned humans would remain deadfor all eternity Satan, as current ruler of this world, was well aware thatJesus could sin. This is why he tempted Him so vigorously. In Revelations 22:13, Jesus said "I am Alpha and Omega,the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Jesus forgave sin. He allowed others to worship Him(Matthew 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; & Mark 5:6. The 2nd Commandment forbade worship to anyoneother than God. Only God had authority to do such.
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ringo Member (Idle past 671 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
*shrug* You say that like it was a bad thing. Evolutionists view evolution in the same way that theysee Swiss cheese. They ignore all of the holes that exist in both. Sure there are gaps in our knowledge. There are gaps in our knowledge on every subject. (Even your almighty knowledge of your god has gaps in it.) As I said, we don't ignore the cheese just because it has holes in it. The cheese itself is still good.
candle2 writes:
YOU can talk all YOU want but YOUR talk won't eliminate the transitional fossils that we DO have. If you were honest (you're not), you could look up "transitional fossils" yourself and find out how many transitional fossils we DO have. But you'd rather believe the lies that creationist tell you.
You can talk all you want, but talk doesn't producetransitional fossils. candle2 writes:
Liar. If you looked, you'd find them.
They don't exist. And, you know they don't. candle2 writes:
Show us your calculations. You can't, can't you? Because those numbers are just lies made up by creationists.
If evolution were true, we would have tens, perhapshundreds, of millions of transitional fossils. candle2 writes:
Darwin would certainly be impressed by how thoroughly his ideas have been confirmed. Look at DNA, for example. Darwin only knew D and N and A as letters in the alphabet. Today, DNA has confirmed evolution many, many times over. Even Darwin who laugh at his own concept if heknew what we know today. Why are your "arguments" a hundred years old? Because you don't have the first inkling of a clue about DNA?
candle2 writes:
And?
Even the simple single cell organisms are morecomplicated and complex than the most modern factories. candle2 writes:
It seems impossible for you to learn anything. Evolution is impossible."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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