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Junior Member (Idle past 785 days) Posts: 5 From: Austin Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is ID falsifiable by any kind of experiment? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 8.7 |
Present the damn model or shut the fuck up. My prediction -- he will do neither.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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MrIntelligentDesign Member (Idle past 565 days) Posts: 248 Joined: |
As I had told here many times that anybody and everybody can invent definitions, but are those invented definitions correct and part of reality?
Words always convey meaning, but if distorted, will also convey distorted meaning. That is very basic and obvious.
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MrIntelligentDesign Member (Idle past 565 days) Posts: 248 Joined: |
I read the link twice, but that is not how a theory predicts and explains.
Evolution is change, so, is the change guided or not? What you will be expecting if the change is not guided? Do you really believe and accept that if the change is not guided, chimps will become humans? But before you could answer yes or no, then what will be the criteria and dividing line between guided change and unguided change that we will be using and we will agreeing, as universal criteria, and set the universal numerical limit as criteria, with experiment? You see, anybody could claim anything, but science is science, and we need to follow the Scientific Method. For example, how do you know if a temperature is 100 C? We measure that by using a universal criteria, like thermometer, and we all agree upon that criteria, thus, nobody complain. You see, science is very simple, very fair, and very correct. The best system of knowing what is correct or not is science. That is why I love science. That is where the new ID stands.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9581 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.5
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MrI writes: Evolution is change, so, is the change guided or not? Not​ What you will be expecting if the change is not guided? What we see now
Do you really believe and accept that if the change is not guided, chimps will become humans? No. Chimps will not become humans.​ But before you could answer yes or no, then what will be the criteria and dividing line between guided change and unguided change that we will be using and we will agreeing, as universal criteria, and set the universal numerical limit as criteria, with experiment?
There is no guided change. If you disagree evidence it.
You see, anybody could claim anything, but science is science, and we need to follow the Scientific Method. I completely agree, so I recommend you understand the science of evolution before you begin to criticise it. (Humans did not evolve from chimps).​ That is why I love science.
You don't love science, you love yourself. You don't know what science is; you're a science stalker, completely deluded with an intent to do harm. Probably in the end, to yourself.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Mr.ID writes: Wait a minute! Since when does "science" kick a theory out? And since when does a theory suddenly become "the only correct theory"? You got a lot of 'splainin to do, Lucy.
I am asking all of you
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Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
MrIntelligentDesign writes: As I had told here many times that anybody and everybody can invent definitions, but are those invented definitions correct and part of reality? You are inventing words that have no definition, such as frequency allele and interrelated. What is a frequency allele? Can you describe it?
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Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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MrIntelligentDesign writes: Evolution is change, so, is the change guided or not? No, it is not guided. This is discussed in my thread: https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=20367 It is also discussed in two important papers from the 1940's and 50's that were the first to describe how evolutionary change is not guided: The Luria and Delbruck paper on the fluctuation assay:MUTATIONS OF BACTERIA FROM VIRUS SENSITIVITY TO VIRUS RESISTANCE | Genetics | Oxford Academic The Lederberg's paper on the plate replica assay:REPLICA PLATING AND INDIRECT SELECTION OF BACTERIAL MUTANTS - PMC All of these experiments demonstrate that mutations aren't guided and they do so through scientific criteria and methods.
What you will be expecting if the change is not guided? Exactly what we see in those three experiments above. For example, in the plate replica experiment we see that mutations that confer antibiotic resistance are not triggered by the presence of antibiotics. Instead, there are random mutations changing DNA without guidance, and some of those mutations just happen to produce antibiotic resistance.
Do you really believe and accept that if the change is not guided, chimps will become humans? No one believes that. In fact, if chimps evolved into humans that would be evidence for guidance. Are you sure you know what the theory of evolution says?
But before you could answer yes or no, then what will be the criteria and dividing line between guided change and unguided change that we will be using and we will agreeing, as universal criteria, and set the universal numerical limit as criteria, with experiment? Three experiments above.
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Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
WookieeB writes: But then you say it is "not directed by the experimenter". That seems contradictory to your premise. At the very least, whatever results come about, they are constrained by the experiment, which itself is designed. So in a macro sense, by design, yes the results are being directed. How did the Lederberg's direct which mutations will occur in their experiment? REPLICA PLATING AND INDIRECT SELECTION OF BACTERIAL MUTANTS - PMC
As to (1), actions of an intelligent agent would fall under "known mechanisms". And of course ID infers that life is a result of the activity of a mind. How is this inference falsifiable?
But, if an experiment was designed with nothing at the beginning that was in a state of something akin to "the complexity of life", but then through undirected processes within that experiment results occur that are something akin to "the complexity of life", then yes, I would rule out a designer for those results. So even if we witnessed all modern biodiversity evolving through natural processes from the very first life or a universal common ancestor, that wouldn't falsify ID because the first life had complexity?
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MrIntelligentDesign Member (Idle past 565 days) Posts: 248 Joined: |
No, it is not guided. This is discussed in my thread: Once again, I will repeat, your post was both a claim and a conclusion, but, how do you know that X is not guided or X is guided?You really do not understand how science works! YOU CANNOT CONCLUDE a one-sided view of reality! You must know both guided and non-guided, and set the numerical limits between the two and conclude! That is why we can distinguish black color to white color because we have limit or dividing line between the two. Thus, what is your dividing line between guided X to non-guided X? Present your evidence here and let us see if we could see it in reality! That is why, no matter how hard you explain to me Evolution, if Evolution cannot answer and invent or discover the criteria between guided X and unguided X in biological world, then Evolution is still a stupid theory! WHY? Since Evolution has no basis at all in science! Please, use you intellectual mind, you too studied in schools, right? Then, use your mind. Once again, how do you know that X is not guided or X is guided?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
how do you know that X is not guided or X is guided? I don't know. How do you know whether X is guided or not guided? How do you tell?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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It's like trying to discuss something in English with someone who doesn't understand any actual English words.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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MrIntelligentDesign Member (Idle past 565 days) Posts: 248 Joined: |
Know it first before telling the public.
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MrIntelligentDesign Member (Idle past 565 days) Posts: 248 Joined: |
Science is to know and to get knowledge.
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vimesey Member (Idle past 330 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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In case anyone has an hour and 10 to kill, this is Mr ID debating with Aron Ra a few years ago:
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
MrID knows absolutely nothing crap at all about evolution.
. . . Oh, yeah!
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