|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Power of the New Intelligent Design... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10358 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3
|
GDR writes: Barrigar's point is that when civilization comes to an end and if there is nothing other than the material, then the meaning and purposes we had in this life will ultimately have no meaning and purpose. As long as there are 2 or more humans interacting there is civilization. If there are no humans, it isn't worth asking about purpose or meaning. Even a lone human can find purpose and meaning as they learn new things and explore before their death.
However again, as this is a finite world and if materialism represents actual reality, then ultimately there is no meaning or purpose to our lives that aren't simply transitory.
What's wrong with transitory meaning and purpose? Finding new meaning and purpose as the world changes around you doesn't seem like a problem. This seems to fit into a trend that I have seen within Christian apologetics. There seems to be a common thread where there can't be meaning and purpose unless it is an intrinsic property of the universe. There also can't be morality unless it is based on some objective standard. Overall, Christian apologetics seems to have a problem with the subjectivity of the human experience. I have often seen phrases like, "in atheism, there is no real purpose in life," as if a subjective purpose is not real. In my own experience as an atheist, I have become very comfortable with the subjective. I don't need the universe to have an intrinsic purpose in order to find my own purpose in life, and subjective morality works quite well for me (and for society). I am able to understand and embrace both my objective skeptical side and my very subjective and fallible human side. The human experience is one big contradiction after another, and I think it's a great ride.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6223 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: |
Taq writes:
Wouldn't disagree with any of that. My point was that you misunderstood what Barrigar was saying and I wanted to correct it.
As long as there are 2 or more humans interacting there is civilization. If there are no humans, it isn't worth asking about purpose or meaning. Even a lone human can find purpose and meaning as they learn new things and explore before their death. Taq writes:
Nothing wrong and it isn't a problem
What's wrong with transitory meaning and purpose? Finding new meaning and purpose as the world changes around you doesn't seem like a problem. Taq writes: This seems to fit into a trend that I have seen within Christian apologetics. There seems to be a common thread where there can't be meaning and purpose unless it is an intrinsic property of the universe. There also can't be morality unless it is based on some objective standard. Overall, Christian apologetics seems to have a problem with the subjectivity of the human experience. I have often seen phrases like, "in atheism, there is no real purpose in life," as if a subjective purpose is not real. I agree with all of that. I do suggest that the difference is between our meanings and purposes in this life that would no longer be meaningful with the end of civilization as opposed to having meaning that would extend beyond this existence and into the next.
Taq writes:
That's reasonable and well put. n my own experience as an atheist, I have become very comfortable with the subjective. I don't need the universe to have an intrinsic purpose in order to find my own purpose in life, and subjective morality works quite well for me (and for society). I am able to understand and embrace both my objective skeptical side and my very subjective and fallible human side. The human experience is one big contradiction after another, and I think it's a great ride.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 713 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Dredge writes:
You're in no position to advise anybody about anything. Your IQ is 9. Please be advised...Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 6138 Joined: Member Rating: 6.2
|
You're in no position to advise anybody about anything. Your IQ is 9. The best he could do would be to advise by example, a prime example of what not to be and what not to do:
"Observe Dredge. DON'T BE THAT GUY!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18694 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
Taq writes: Go on...
Even a lone human can find purpose and meaning as they learn new things and explore before their death. Taq writes: I look at it like this. Dream as if you (or your species) are gonna live forever. Plan as if you could be gone tomorrow. What's wrong with transitory meaning and purpose? Finding new meaning and purpose as the world changes around you doesn't seem like a problem.Taq writes: This is charging up my neurons a bit. I will have to think about what you just said.
Overall, Christian apologetics seems to have a problem with the subjectivity of the human experience. I have often seen phrases like, "in atheism, there is no real purpose in life," as if a subjective purpose is not real.Taq writes: Do you see subjectivity in truth? Traditionally, I attempted to validate belief as an objective truth. This was made possible only because I became a believer and focused on *that* emotional objectivity. Im trying to understand this concept of what a subjective truth actually would be. In my own experience as an atheist, I have become very comfortable with the subjective. I don't need the universe to have an intrinsic purpose in order to find my own purpose in life, and subjective morality works quite well for me (and for society). I am able to understand and embrace both my objective skeptical side and my very subjective and fallible human side. The human experience is one big contradiction after another, and I think it's a great ride. Edited by Phat, : spellcheck The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10358 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3
|
Phat writes: Do you see subjectivity in truth? Traditionally, I attempted to validate belief as an objective truth. I see objectivity as the path to truth. The subjective part is the human experience. For example, I love my parents and siblings. This isn't an objective truth, but it is a very subjective emotion that I hold very dear. It is one of the most important parts of the human experience and being a human. Experiencing a beautiful sunset, listening to an amazing Bach concerto, and admiring a great painting are all subjective experiences, but they are all important parts of life. Something can be subjective and still be very important. It doesn't make it a truth, but it can be a vital part of our lives. Subjective emotions are real, even if they aren't objective truths.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 116 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
Dredge writes:
... except no one has discovered a natural cause for the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record.Taq writes:
Taq the con-man is at it again ...
Here it is:Human Genetics Confirms Mutations as the Drivers of Diversity and Evolution – EvoGrad – EvoGrad The differences between species have been shown to be due to the natural mechanisms we see creating mutations in living populations.
This is about the 3rd time you've presented the same argument by Steve Schaffner. You seem to be running out of ideas. Schaffner's argument is just a theory ... it doesn't prove that science has discovered what process was responsible for the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record. News flash: A theory is not a discovery. Furthermore, Schaffner's argument doesn't extend to the evolution of different phyla ... it merely relates to the alleged common ancestor of humans and chimps. And guess what, dum-dum? It's impossible for anyone to discover what process was responsible for the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record ... although that fact doesn't deter Darwinoid charlatans like you from claiming otherwise. Incidentally, the EvoGrad blog(?) you cited is a joke ... the Darwinoid author states that he chooses to remain anonymous, so his credibility goes down the drain right there.Then he declares that he's an atheist ... which means his views on evolution will be characterised by extreme bias, delusional fantasies, pseudo-science, false claims and almost certainly, outright lies.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 116 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
I think you're taking this insect thing way too far. It's all well and good to study insects ... and to even give yourself the taxonomic name of an insect genus ... but to actually start thinking like an insect, well that's not a good idea at all.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: |
Tanypteryx writes: Sludge writes: ... except no one has discovered a natural cause for the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record. Sure they have, but no one has discovered evidence of your imaginary god poofing anything, just a far-fetched bronze age myth made up by a bunch of goat fuckers.
Sludge writes: All you clowns have is flawed theory based on a far-fetched nineteenth-century idea. And hundreds of museums and libraries stuffed with supporting evidence for a robust 21st century theory. Sludge writes: I think you're taking this insect thing way too far. It's all well and good to study insects ... and to even give yourself the taxonomic name of an insect genus ... but to actually start thinking like an insect, well that's not a good idea at all. Very imaginative.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10358 Joined: Member Rating: 6.3
|
Dredge writes: This is about the 3rd time you've presented the same argument by Steve Schaffner. You seem to be running out of ideas. Schaffner's argument is just a theory ... it doesn't prove that science has discovered what process was responsible for the changes in life-forms evident in the fossil record. News flash: A theory is not a discovery. Funny how you can't address the actual observations. It seems all you can muster is "Nuh uh!". Do you know how the scientific method works? Do you know what hypothesis testing is? You seem to be arguing against the very practice of doing science.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 116 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
Furthermore, do you really think restricting your diet to insects is wise?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
|
It beats swallowing your Pedo Cult bullshit.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stile Member (Idle past 345 days) Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
GDR writes: I do suggest that the difference is between our meanings and purposes in this life that would no longer be meaningful with the end of civilization as opposed to having meaning that would extend beyond this existence and into the next. I would suggest that if you require "meaning" to extend beyond this existence and into the next in order to be meaningful... then you are egotistical and without honour. And, if you allow for "meaning" to be ultimately meaningful without such a selfish requirement... then you allow the possibility of having ultimate meaning AND honour.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 116 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
That's sound advice.
"Observe Dredge. DON'T BE THAT GUY!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 116 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
Stale writes:
Your suggestion is shallow, stupid and absurd ... not to mention shallow, stupid and absurd. I would suggest that if you require "meaning" to extend beyond this existence and into the next in order to be meaningful... then you are egotistical and without honour. Life has meaning only if it's eternal. A finite life is as meaningless as meaningless can get. For Pete's sake, grow up and think.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025