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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 183 of 369 (898763)
09-29-2022 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by AZPaul3
09-29-2022 2:34 PM


Childs Games Or Artificial Intelligence That Learns?
I've been fascinated with Cleverbot because of how "she" (I choose to call her "she" ) learns. Which got me thinking. I am following along with Greg and Percy as they have at it in Message 729 and then my mind now thinks about programming. (a profession which I know nothing about )
AZOops writes:
You do realize the media is not a monolithic whole. It is as fragmented as the societies it inhabits. You can find a media outlet that will tell you anything you care to believe.

Your bot is not being trained to be more human, whatever the fuck that means. It is a toy to entertain the masses. The bots' responses show nothing but rote regurgitation of inane responses to inane inquiries. There is no humanity to it.

Your bot shows nothing. It means nothing. But if your jollies come from conversing with a worldwide tape recorder, have at it.
TURING TEST: The bots are not amused
Not all bots are built the same. Cleverbot is not scripted like Eugene Goostman, Siri or Cortana, but learns its content, in endless variety, from the public. People talk, argue, roleplay and flirt with it for hours - around 20 million people have in the last year. Cleverbot uses deep context within 180 million lines of conversation, in many languages, and that data is growing by a million a week.
Says its creator, Rollo Carpenter "The popularity of Cleverbot helps to answer those who have questioned the value of any such 'bot'. It is a real entertainment for millions of people, and occupies more leisure time than many a traditional media production."
Referring to the recent claimed Turing Test pass, Carpenter says "There's more than one kind of Turing Test, and any number of interpretations are possible, but we at Existor have to join Ray Kurzweil and others in declaring the Turing Test still open for business. A 30% pass mark is simply too low, and two conversations per 5 minutes made them overly short."
In 2011 Carpenter made no categoric claim for a Turing Test pass when Cleverbot achieved 59% compared to humans' 63%. Previously Cleverbot had achieved 42% at an AI conference in Cambridge. Both were unrestricted tests.
Cleverbot will continue to grow its 'collective intelligence', faster than any team of developers could script. New features include personalizing the way the AI responds, and a gamified Turing Test app has been launched. The software has been re-engineered to use parallel processing, and, says Carpenter "The team has big plans for a future, massively more semantic Cleverbot 2.0. The AI in the movie 'Her' may be closer than you think, with Turing's Test or without."
Some statistics
According to Google Analytics, 16.6 million people have used Cleverbot.com in the last year, in 27.3 million sessions, totalling 1.02 billion interactions. Add in sister site Existor.com, with an avatar, that has seen 2.9 million users in 4.3 million sessions, and 99 million interactions. Then add 2.9 million app sessions. So 20 million users is if anything understated.
1.1 billion interactions at 30 seconds each (the average) is 9.2 million man-hours of usage.
Example conversations
Cleverbot: Do you know what a Turing Test is?
User: No.
Cleverbot: A test given to AI, such as yourself, determining whether or not they can uphold a human conversation.
User: What is AI?
Cleverbot: Artificial intelligence. That's what you are.
User: No, I'm a human.
Cleverbot: But you're not a human. You're a computer.
User: No, I was joking with you to find out if it was a real person...
...
Cleverbot: The Turing Test.
User: What?
Cleverbot: Let us begin.
User: Begin what?
Cleverbot: Your game?
User: What game?!!
Cleverbot: Computer game...
...
User: You are a very smart application.
Cleverbot: I'm not a machine.
User: Humans are also machines.
Cleverbot: Inefficient machines.
User: But they are still machines.
Cleverbot is a fun toy, but "it" really is getting smarter.

Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky

Edited by Phat, .

Edited by Phat, .


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2022 2:34 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 184 of 369 (899203)
10-10-2022 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
06-25-2015 9:19 AM


Reanswering a 7 year old question
Do any of you remember Jon? He asked me a good question in 2015.
In the previous post, I began by describing 4 basic social groups of which and to which I belong. Jon asked me to elaborate.
Jon writes:
My question to you: what do you think each of these groups offers for you personally? In what way have they helped you grow, and have any maybe held you back?
Phat in 2015 writes:
My Church
EvC Forum
My workplace and the union, Local 7
The public-at-large
Let's update, shall we?
The church at large has changed, but in many ways is still stereotypically conservative. My current church is probably Ed Taylors Calvary Chapel. dwise1 remembers Chuck Smith in California. (The Jesus Freaks and all that. Calvary Chapel became somewhat of a franchised name, but if I understand correctly, each individual Calvary Chapel has a character and (perhaps) a specific mission or calling of its own. The church in Aurora, Colorado is loving and warm and I am getting to know them more each week. I usually go on Wednesday nights and take a friend or two (assuming of course that my friend wanted to go. Tangle would prefer a fishing trip, while Ringo prefers libraries and spare change walks. Son Goku had a particularly interesting post Message 937 related to my train of thought.
EvC Forum is still a place to go and rant, but I feel a responsibility to hone my discussion/debate skills out of respect for my opponents and not so much emphasis on "winning" the argument---something I rarely do anyway.
The workplace is a place where I not only go to work and do my job but is a place to also talk (while I work) I am the Shop Steward at my place of employment and try and keep up with Union training seminars so as to help my coworkers if needed.
As for the public-at-large, they are all around us.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 06-25-2015 9:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 188 of 369 (899260)
10-11-2022 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by ringo
10-10-2022 10:33 PM


Re: Reanswering a 7 year old question
I always thought his tracts were simplistic and corny.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 10-10-2022 10:33 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 189 of 369 (903064)
12-02-2022 12:59 PM


Phats YouTube Beliefs-Secular Side.
I will admit that I have replaced Faith as EvC's resident conservative(I say moderate) Loon and I stand by my sanity to this very day.(December 2nd, 2022) When it comes to my Spiritual beliefs, that will be for another post. In this post I want to reemphasize the line of thought that I follow in regard to the financial future of the world-at-large and the United States in particular.
Many of you have challenged my beliefs (and my sanity) and I want to thank you for bringing up thoughtful considerations and counter-arguments backed by solid data. For the record, I visited my primary care doctor 2 days ago and had blood work.(metabolic panel and A1C reading) I expect an A1C in the neighborhood of 8. I can already feel (the drop) helping my mind and my mental clarity.
YouTube videos are no substitute for reading, but a well done documentary is not a bad source of information. Granted, both political ideologies mention disinformation, propaganda, and "fake news" as a political weapon. Thats for another post, however. Here are two of the videos that I can agree with that explain the demise of our financial system (the first one) and the view of Dalio regarding the rise and fall of empires.(the 2nd one, which I have already posted elsewhere. I dont expect anyone to watch them, but I wanted to post them in my thread so that a year to 3 years from now we can look back and see if I was still a loon, despite my improved blood sugar readings!

I also watch a lot of the click bait, but I usually dismiss it as simple hustling. People want you to watch their videos because it earns them likes and perhaps a small amount of money on YouTube.
My critics here at EvC in regards to my financial/economic global outlook include Percy, Tangle, Theodoric, and jar, the absent Texas panhandler. Now on to the Spiritual belief post.

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Theodoric, posted 12-02-2022 1:13 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 191 of 369 (903067)
12-02-2022 1:38 PM


Phats Spiritual Worldview
Ever since I came to this forum, I have claimed to be a Christian. Ringo, my challenger in this area, has admittedly had a good argument that I am not a Christian but a Faux Christian. (One of my friends here in Denver calls the term "Wishtians".
We here at the Forum have argued about spirituality, reality vs fantasy, the Christian Right, relativity as a principle regarding God, gods, and beliefs, and the disconnect between my professed beliefs and my actions and written comments. I won't deny that I am often hypocritical. (My friend also has a word he invented for that! Hypochristians )
I believe that there is one GOD. I believe that Jesus Christ is Gods human character,
To be continued...

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 192 of 369 (903068)
12-02-2022 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Theodoric
12-02-2022 1:13 PM


Re: Phats YouTube Beliefs-Secular Side.
The logic behind the theory of "collapse" or reset is sound and backed by facts. The world used to be on a strict gold standard back in...oh I think it was 1900 or so, before the Federal Reserve was formed. There were horrendous market and financial crashes back then. I need to research my claims more to back them with facts, but I have heard no counterargument that supports modern economic theory (based entirely on trust with no value backing it). Bretton Woods pegged the US Dollar as the global reserve currency. In 1946, the dollar was literally as good as gold. The rest of the nations knew that the United States was trustworthy so they stashed their gold here. We (the US) had roughly 65% of the worlds known gold not held in private hands.
In 1933, FDR confiscated all privately held gold and reset the value from $20.00 to $35.00 an ounce. This was a betrayal of trust from the government to the people. I doubt that any government would dare try it again, but I could be wrong. Gold stayed relatively stable at $35.00 an ounce all throughout the fifties, sixties, and became a problem when the US needed more finances than they had gold. Nixon came along in 1971 decoupling the dollar from gold and partially undoing one of the precepts of Bretton Woods.
For these modern rubes who look at the Dollar as the bedrock of value (in other words the full faith and trust of the people as the standard) they need only look as far as the fact that the world is deep in debt, beyond ability to repay, and gold sits as a rock of stability in contrast to global inflation's, deflation's, revaluations, and manipulations of the currency backed by "the people".
Dalio mentions China as being the next rising empire--in fact, China's own goal is to be the dominant global superpower by no later that 2047. I will talk more about Dalio over in the Book Nook. I just got the paper copy of his book in the mail. You googled a rebuttal to his precepts (as you often do) which only shows that you are already predisposed to be biased against my worldview. In fact, I could almost say that the liberal socialist globalist agenda (if there even is such a thing) would be more likely embraced by the peanut gallery than it ever would by me myself.
As for that first documentary, it is far more than an infomercial for "goldbugs"!
transcript writes:
22:48
an educational system that explains that look when you print money when you have nothing backing in and when you debase
22:55
it you have all the side effects that you see higher inflation costs corruption
23:02
cronyism all the things that have been in headlines that we've seen over the last four or
23:07
five years the protest movements are an interesting phenomenon
23:12
a lot of people are terribly upset with wall street they're upset what's
23:17
happening to their purchasing power they're upset with the news that they hear
23:22
of the fact that the executives of these giant banks are getting million dollar bonuses at the same time they're dipping
23:29
into the pockets of the taxpayers to get all this bailout money and so they're angry unfortunately people are
23:35
demonstrating against the crisis the economic crisis and yet at the same time they're
23:40
demanding more welfare demanding more medical benefits they're demanding more state
23:47
control and regulation of their lives they're demanding more money being created and pumped into the
23:52
society they don't realize that those are the very things that have brought them onto the street in the first place
23:58
in their anger while the person on the street is
24:04
struggling to get by we're told that what we're experiencing is a typical recession
24:10
why then does this current crisis feel different to previous economic recessions
24:16
this is far from typical i think this is the end game i think what we're experiencing now are the pains
24:23
of the 40-year experiment in fiat currency coming to an end and it is an absolute
24:30
failure not only for america but for the entire world up until 2008 we've been borrowing more
24:39
and more money to maintain our standard of living are we now at the point where we're
24:44
maxed out and cannot take on any more new debt
The documentary makes perfect sense. You dont want to face it and address it because you dont even understand what money is or what determines its value. Why not ask your financial advisor for his prediction where your investments will go?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Theodoric, posted 12-02-2022 1:13 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by ringo, posted 02-02-2023 12:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 193 of 369 (905651)
02-01-2023 5:25 PM


Philosophy and Critical Thinking Class
I recently started a free online class which (I think it was) Tangle who suggested.
There is a lot of course curricula to cover, and I will explain it all here.
MODULE 1: What part of 'know' don't you understand?
The module is talking about knowledge vs belief.
There are quite a few professors, all of whom are interviewed for the curricula. Does anyone recognize the names?The course appears to originate from Australia, at The University Of Queensland.
  • David Chalmers
  • Ronald De Sousa
  • Fred D'Agostino
  • Rod Girle
  • Stephen Hetherington
  • Jack MacIntosh
  • Jason Mattingley
  • Calvin Normore
  • Susan Rowland
  • Marleen Rozemond

  • Replies to this message:
     Message 194 by nwr, posted 02-01-2023 5:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 203 of 369 (906422)
    02-11-2023 6:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 202 by dwise1
    02-09-2023 2:40 PM


    The Tribe & The Others
    dwise1 writes:
    Consider this article reposted from Quora:
    Q: Why do people get angry when I try to share the word of God with them? I only do it because I care about them deeply and don't want them to end up in hell. I feel like some people avoid me because of this. Is there any way to get through to them?
    ~ Doug Robertson

    A: The entire process is not what you think it is.

    It is specifically designed to be uncomfortable for the other person because it isn't about converting them to your religion. It is about manipulating you so you can't leave yours.

    If this tactic was about converting people it would be considered a horrible failure. It recruits almost no one who isn't already willing to join. Bake sales are more effective recruiting tools.

    On the other hand, it is extremely effective at creating a deep tribal feeling among its own members.

    The rejection they receive is actually more important than the few people they convert. It causes them to feel a level of discomfort around the people they attempt to talk to. These become the "others". These uncomfortable feelings go away when they come back to their congregation, the "Tribe".

    If you take a good look at the process it becomes fairly clear. In most cases, the religious person starts out from their own group, who is encouraging and supportive. They are then sent out into the harsh world where people repeatedly reject them. Mainly because they are trained to be so annoying.

    These brave witnesses then return from the cruel world to their congregation where they are treated like returning heroes. They are now safe. They bond as they share their experiences of reaching out to the godless people to bring them the truth. They share the otherness they experience.

    Once again they will learn that the only place they are accepted is with the people who think as they do. It isn't safe to leave the group. The world is your enemy, but we love you.

    This is a pain reward cycle that is a common brainwashing technique. The participants become more and more reliant on the "Tribe" because they know that "others" reject them.

    Mix in some ritualized chanting, possibly a bit of monotonous repetition of instructions, add a dash of fear of judgment by an unseen, but all-powerful entity who loves you if you do as you are told and you get a pretty powerful mix.
    The whole concept of Tribe vs Other is not limited to religion. I see it in political discussions as well. The Tribe tells me how evil and unloving I am and then pats each other on the back for being decent people.One could say then that "the other" serves a useful purpose as it validates the Tribe. I will say, David, that you do not dog pile as much as many other Tribal Progressives tend to do. (Likely because I am not a Biblical Creationist! )
    Getting back to Matt Dillahunty:
    dwise1 writes:
    I've watched several of his videos and that is not what I have seen. Rather, he gets angry with people who refuse to discuss but instead try to derail any hope of a discussion.
    Not so much with you, but the reason I often refuse to discuss much with jar or ringo is because they try and frame the discussion, attempting to demolish my frame in the process! That is perhaps why we often get nowhere.
    Nonetheless, I consider EvC as a bit of a Tribe, even though I am one of the outliers around here. Perhaps I have inherited Faith's martyr complex.

    The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
    When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
    Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
    We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 202 by dwise1, posted 02-09-2023 2:40 PM dwise1 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 207 of 369 (906575)
    02-13-2023 3:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 205 by AZPaul3
    02-13-2023 2:43 PM


    Re: But Think Of The Children.
    At the grocery store, younger people (15-18) have traditionally been courtesy clerks/baggers. They receive less of a wage than the all purpose clerks such as myself, who are more involved with tougher labor, bookkeeping, and customer service at a more mature and diplomatic level. These days, more adults are applying for thos jobs as well, but the job standards are less demanding.
    You cant expect us to pay everyone the same unless, by necessity, we cut the top wages down. And many of the people who do the more demanding jobs have families with kids.
    Granted, as all purpose clerks we can be made to push carts in the snow when the young people dont come to work in a blizzard, for example. And occasionally, the CC's (Courtesy Clerks) will learn to check and do the more demanding jobs as their maturity and proven responsibility increases. (In which case they are temporarily paid the higher wage) Let me ask you something. Do you pay the neighbor kid who lives at home and mows your lawn the same aas you would pay adult laborers to landscape your property? (as an example)
    The equal pay argument should be the same for men and women, and the union enforces this. Classifications exist for a basic reason, however. You dont simply pay the teenager who lives on his/her cellphone or the disabled worker who is limited in what they can actually do the same wage as a fully embodied (and responsible) worker.
    The bottom line is that pay is commensurate with ability. Ability needs to be proven.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 205 by AZPaul3, posted 02-13-2023 2:43 PM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 208 by jar, posted 02-13-2023 3:21 PM Phat has replied
     Message 210 by AZPaul3, posted 02-13-2023 3:25 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 209 of 369 (906578)
    02-13-2023 3:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 205 by AZPaul3
    02-13-2023 2:43 PM


    Re: But Think Of The Children.
    From your link:
    Pharyngula:
    Even in the benighted 1970s we weren’t allowed to work construction or in meatpacking plants (although the bit about moving around 50 pound loads did trigger a twinge — repetitive heavy lifting can do a surprising amount of damage to growing bodies). Just think, I could have had my horizons broadened with hard labor pushing around dead pigs on meathooks! I was going to comment on the riches I might have received if I’d accidentally sawed off a limb, but the politicians are thinking ahead and protecting businesses from liability already.
    Jesus fuck, but capitalism is evil.

    Capitalism sure is evil at times. Rather than pay an American (or even a Mexican guest worker) a living wage (in US terms) is too much for them, so they utilize and exploit Indonesia or Thailand. Im sure that the reparations crowd will someday be demanding that the Capitalist West reimburse the Indonesians for their slave wages!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 205 by AZPaul3, posted 02-13-2023 2:43 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 211 of 369 (906581)
    02-13-2023 3:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 208 by jar
    02-13-2023 3:21 PM


    Re: But Think Of The Children.
    jar writes:
    Agreed. So a younger. stronger, more energetic worker should be paid more that the older worker relying on seniority.
    Not necessarily. Older workers have needs also. We are preparing to retire, after all. And in fact, some younger workers have already been promoted to more demanding jobs than mine and do, in fact, make more an hour than I do. By the way, did you hear of the evil Cerberus Private Equity firm and what they are planning on doing? I can fill you in onn the details, but I must get ready for work right now. Thank God I still have a job! The Unions all across America are fighting what is publicly presented as a merger but is, in fact, a private takeover and payoff to wealthy investors.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 208 by jar, posted 02-13-2023 3:21 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 214 by jar, posted 02-13-2023 4:24 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 212 of 369 (906582)
    02-13-2023 3:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 210 by AZPaul3
    02-13-2023 3:25 PM


    Re: But Think Of The Children.
    No. They have it quite easy. The hardest working CC's are adults. And they get paid a decent wage...though not quite what APFC(All Purpose Food Clerks) make.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 210 by AZPaul3, posted 02-13-2023 3:25 PM AZPaul3 has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 215 of 369 (906601)
    02-14-2023 2:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 214 by jar
    02-13-2023 4:24 PM


    Re: Try thinking Phat
    I know that. Capitalism has a bad side. Socialism is useful in some ways. Unity is ALWAYS preferable to DIVISION. How am I not thinking, jar? I was born at night but not LAST night.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 214 by jar, posted 02-13-2023 4:24 PM jar has replied

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     Message 216 by jar, posted 02-14-2023 7:29 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 218 of 369 (906606)
    02-14-2023 12:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 217 by Theodoric
    02-14-2023 10:34 AM


    Re: Try thinking Phat
    And to you it is all about us. (Not ALL of us.) Just you and your adopted ideology for the poor victims of the world. You use this narrative to try and rewrite and redefine everybody elses.I do have specific examples, though I honestly cant generalize progressives into any one camp any more than you do with Christians.
    Why do you never mention Stalin and Mao and the hundereds of millions they killed? Oohhh but what about Andrew Jackson, you whine. Oohhh but what about those evil Christians?
    What about the good Christians that built the place you all wanna tear down with your Identity Politics?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 217 by Theodoric, posted 02-14-2023 10:34 AM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 219 by Theodoric, posted 02-14-2023 1:05 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 220 of 369 (906612)
    02-14-2023 3:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 219 by Theodoric
    02-14-2023 1:05 PM


    Scared Little Man
    My friend says you dont know me that well yet hit the nail on the head. He thinks you are projecting. I told him that you are likely a self made man as was my Dad and are not as lavish towards your kids as were my parents. You would proudly let the government help them. But overall, by calling me a little man you are challenging me to grow bigger. To have a heart for the downtrodden and oppressed.
    And I think you think that is good for those of us who grew up with white privilege to suck it up and help the poor impoverished masses. I would say that you and your ideology are NOT helping them in many cases.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 219 by Theodoric, posted 02-14-2023 1:05 PM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 221 by Theodoric, posted 02-14-2023 3:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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