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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 976 of 1197 (908015)
03-05-2023 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 974 by Taq
03-01-2023 4:25 PM


Re: Typical?
I asked to define hierarchy. Next step would be to define nesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 974 by Taq, posted 03-01-2023 4:25 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 979 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 11:06 AM sensei has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 977 of 1197 (908017)
03-05-2023 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 975 by Granny Magda
03-01-2023 5:13 PM


Re: Typical?
Same reply to you. Define hierarchy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 975 by Granny Magda, posted 03-01-2023 5:13 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 978 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2023 10:14 AM sensei has replied
 Message 983 by Granny Magda, posted 03-07-2023 5:37 PM sensei has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 978 of 1197 (908020)
03-05-2023 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 977 by sensei
03-05-2023 9:48 AM


Re: Typical?
Hierarchy: Any system of things ranked one above another.
In evolution a nested hierarchy is shown by population groups that emerge as offspring from earlier population groups.
You are not going to hurt nested hierarchies. They are here in reality and have been shown with no doubt. The reality is well known to evolutionary science. Evolution happens as our models predict nested hierarchies and all.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 977 by sensei, posted 03-05-2023 9:48 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 984 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:41 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 979 of 1197 (908085)
03-07-2023 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 976 by sensei
03-05-2023 9:47 AM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
I asked to define hierarchy.
You are a hominid along with the rest of the great apes.
You are a primate, along with the other apes, monkeys, and lemurs.
You are a mammal.
You are an amniote.
You are a tetrapod.
You are a vertebrate.
You are a eukaryote.
Each of those groups is higher in the hierarchy. Primates is above hominids. Mammals is above primates. On and on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 976 by sensei, posted 03-05-2023 9:47 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 980 by Phat, posted 03-07-2023 12:58 PM Taq has replied
 Message 985 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:43 AM Taq has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 980 of 1197 (908101)
03-07-2023 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 979 by Taq
03-07-2023 11:06 AM


Re: Typical?
Hmmmm. Does all of that progression make me now a Greatest Ape?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 979 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 11:06 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 981 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 1:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 982 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2023 2:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 981 of 1197 (908103)
03-07-2023 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 980 by Phat
03-07-2023 12:58 PM


Re: Typical?
Phat writes:
Does all of that progression make me now a Greatest Ape?
Cladistically, all apes are equal since all are at the end of their branch. There are still some Victorian hold over terms that are used in biology, such as "great" apes and eutherian (eu = true, therian = mammal).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 980 by Phat, posted 03-07-2023 12:58 PM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 982 of 1197 (908112)
03-07-2023 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 980 by Phat
03-07-2023 12:58 PM


Re: Typical?
You are no further evolved than any other ape. None of us are.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 980 by Phat, posted 03-07-2023 12:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 983 of 1197 (908118)
03-07-2023 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 977 by sensei
03-05-2023 9:48 AM


Re: Typical?
Define "define".
Define "childishness", you know, other than by example.
Or alternatively, you could discuss the evidence you claimed you wanted to discuss.
Mutate and Survive

On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 977 by sensei, posted 03-05-2023 9:48 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 986 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:46 AM Granny Magda has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 984 of 1197 (908131)
03-08-2023 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 978 by AZPaul3
03-05-2023 10:14 AM


Re: Typical?
And how do you define rank in context of evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 978 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2023 10:14 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 987 by AZPaul3, posted 03-08-2023 8:42 AM sensei has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 985 of 1197 (908132)
03-08-2023 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 979 by Taq
03-07-2023 11:06 AM


Re: Typical?
This is not a definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 979 by Taq, posted 03-07-2023 11:06 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1002 by Taq, posted 03-09-2023 12:15 PM sensei has replied

  
sensei
Member
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-24-2023


Message 986 of 1197 (908133)
03-08-2023 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 983 by Granny Magda
03-07-2023 5:37 PM


Re: Typical?
You keep talking about nested hierarchy. Then define it, before discussing. Otherwise, your claim of observing a nested hierarchy is useless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 983 by Granny Magda, posted 03-07-2023 5:37 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 988 by Granny Magda, posted 03-08-2023 8:48 AM sensei has replied
 Message 989 by dwise1, posted 03-08-2023 10:29 AM sensei has replied
 Message 990 by dwise1, posted 03-08-2023 10:30 AM sensei has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 987 of 1197 (908138)
03-08-2023 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 984 by sensei
03-08-2023 5:41 AM


Re: Typical?
How do you define context?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 984 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:41 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 991 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 5:08 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 1097 by Dredge, posted 03-18-2023 10:54 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 118 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(2)
Message 988 of 1197 (908139)
03-08-2023 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 986 by sensei
03-08-2023 5:46 AM


Re: Typical?
It has already been defined for you, multiple times. Here it is again;
quote:
If different species share common ancestors, we would expect living things to be related to one another in what scientists refer to as nested hierarchies — rather like nested boxes. This is indeed what we observe in the living world and in the fossil record. When we study their traits, species naturally cluster into groups based on suites of similar, inherited traits (i.e., homologies). And they don’t just cluster into groups. They cluster into groups within groups within groups…etc. This observation makes most sense if we understand that, over time, lineages have split and formed new species, which then split and formed even more species, and so on, passing down traits and generating the branching structure that is the Tree of Life. An example is illustrated below.
In this evolutionary tree, sunflowers and orchids nest together because they share many homologies, including flowers. Similarly, pine trees and cypress trees share many homologies, including cones. These two groups (flowering plants and cone-bearing plants) nest together because they all share homologies such as seeds. And then seed-bearing plants nest with ferns because they all share homologies like stomata (pores for gas exchange). And so on … across the whole Tree of Life.
It doesn’t have to be this way. It could be that each species has a random assortment of traits and that there is no obvious way to group them. But that’s not what we observe. In fact, it’s fairly easy to group most organisms into a nested hierarchy. This was recognized by scientists like Linnaeus long before Darwin came along and proposed an explanation for the pattern: that organisms on the Tree of Life are descended with modification from common ancestors. Common ancestry is conspicuous when we examine the distribution of traits in living things.
Nested hierarchies - Understanding Evolution
That is the definition of nested hierarchy we are using. It's the definition used by biologists. No other definition is relevant.
Everyone can see what you're doing. No-one is impressed by your immature antics or your lame excuses. Everyone can see you twisting in the wind, unable to address the issue in any way, but too arrogant to admit it. You are simply too scared to really address the evidence, because deep down, you sense that you are out of your depth and that you have no argument.
You want definitions, buy a dictionary.
Mutate and Survive

On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 986 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:46 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 993 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 5:12 AM Granny Magda has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5969
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 989 of 1197 (908144)
03-08-2023 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 986 by sensei
03-08-2023 5:46 AM


Re: Typical?
You keep talking about "evolutionists", a completely made-up word, but you never define it. Instead, you adamantly refuse to ever define it, let alone answer any of our questions about your assertions about those mythical "evolutionists."
And yet you repeatedly demand that we define terms that we have already defined and described and discussed for you. Why the fuck would you expect us to do what you refuse to do?
You hypocritical dishonest creationist. Which is admittedly entirely redundant since creationists are by their very nature dishonest, hypocritical, and damned liars.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 986 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:46 AM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 992 by sensei, posted 03-09-2023 5:10 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5969
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 990 of 1197 (908145)
03-08-2023 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 986 by sensei
03-08-2023 5:46 AM


Re: Typical?
duplicate post

This message is a reply to:
 Message 986 by sensei, posted 03-08-2023 5:46 AM sensei has not replied

  
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