COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

Ah, so you don't wear a mask to protect your patients, but we already figured that.

Kleinman:

---

Why would you think that I equate masks with vaccinations? I've given vaccines to many, many people, have you?

Tanypteryx:

---

Ah, so you don't wear a mask to protect your patients, but we already figured that.

---

---

You are confused Tany, it's my patients that come to see me that have infectious diseases. Maybe I should have required them to wear a mask but I never saw a need to. I did the things required to minimize any transfer of infection and they worked just fine. And the only physicians up until the last couple of years that wore masks were surgeons in the operating room. Have you ever scrubbed in for a surgical procedure? Perhaps you can explain to us why they wear masks, sterile clothes, and sterile gloves. There weren't outbreaks of contagious disease in them but I think it is a good idea for you to wear a mask. In fact, you should live in a bubble.

I think it's more that people don't like being treated this way. It's sort of like the thing about flies and honey. Working with people is easier if you don't piss them off first.Your emphasis seems more on displaying as much obnoxiousness and conceitedness as possible than on communicating helpful information. The message you're actually trying to communicate seems to be, "I'm smarter and know more than any of you, so you all deserve the insults."Human nature being what it is, naturally this isn't working well for you.--Percy

Yes, of course, and it's been done. This data was presented here already just last month, but it's worth seeing again. It shows that higher vaccination rates correlate with lower mortality: The graph also indicates how each state voted in the 2020 presidential election. States that voted for Trump were more likely to have low vaccination rates and higher mortality.--Percy

Of course he's not claiming that. His statement about self-reporting lowering confidence was pretty clear. Purposefully misinterpreting what people say might not be the best strategy.In case you care, your quotes are backward indented, so you're doing unnecessary work, and it also makes your quotes harder to read. Older text should be more indented, not less. It's easier to just use "peek" to cut-n-paste nested quotes just as they are into your text.--Percy

Kleinman:

---

Are you telling me that the people on this forum are interested in being informed?

Percy:

---

I think it's more that people don't like being treated this way. It's sort of like the thing about flies and honey. Working with people is easier if you don't piss them off first.
​
Your emphasis seems more on displaying as much obnoxiousness and conceitedness as possible than on communicating helpful information. The message you're actually trying to communicate seems to be, "I'm smarter and know more than any of you, so you all deserve the insults."
​
Human nature being what it is, naturally this isn't working well for you.

---

---

So you mean that not agreeing with an irrational viewpoint is obnoxious and conceited?xongsmith claims that you made a post where you report how many people got Covid despite the fact they wore masks and got vaccinated and the number of people that got Covid and didn't wear a mask and did not get vaccinated. Where is that post?

Kleinman:

---

Don't you think those numbers should be compared to see if vaccinations and masks were effective?

Percy:

---

Yes, of course, and it's been done. This data was presented here already just last month, but it's worth seeing again. It shows that higher vaccination rates correlate with lower mortality:

​

​

The graph also indicates how each state voted in the 2020 presidential election. States that voted for Trump were more likely to have low vaccination rates and higher mortality.

---

---

Where's the mask?

Kleinman:

---

Don't you think those numbers should be compared to see if vaccinations and masks were effective?

Tanypteryx:

---

Yes.
​
And I assume that many different public health organizations did those comparisons, but the accuracy of people self reporting their own behavior during the pandemic lowers confidence in those surveys.

Kleinman:

---

Are you claiming that you don't know whether Covid vaccinations and masks work?

Percy:

---

Of course he's not claiming that. His statement about self-reporting lowering confidence was pretty clear. Purposefully misinterpreting what people say might not be the best strategy.
​
In case you care, your quotes are backward indented, so you're doing unnecessary work, and it also makes your quotes harder to read. Older text should be more indented, not less. It's easier to just use "peek" to cut-n-paste nested quotes just as they are into your text.

---

---

---

---

So your claim is that you can't trust individuals but you can trust institutions that have monetary and political interests to protect. I'm not as naive as you.I find your quotes harder to read but don't worry, I can figure them out.

I think misattributing irrational viewpoints to people who never expressed any such thing is obnoxious, and that your continual claims of being right are conceited and probably hide deep seated insecurities. I already presented that graph again. A great deal of data exists and many studies have been conducted, but the kinds of things you're saying seem to indicate an unawareness of it, or perhaps you're aware but believe they're unreliable - I don't know, you don't say.But a data driven discussion would be good, so as we develop a better idea of what data you'd like to see, we all as a group should have little trouble tracking it down.--Percy

One thing at a time. Do you accept that graph as an indication of the effectiveness of the covid vaccines? If so then we can move on. If not then what data about vaccine effectiveness would you like to see?--Percy

Purposefully misinterpreting what people say isn't a good strategy. If this is something you'd like to say then say it, but there's little point in claiming I said it or meant anything like it because it's obvious I didn't. You're starting to sound like a conspiracy enthusiast.--Percy

Kleinman:

---

So you mean that not agreeing with an irrational viewpoint is obnoxious and conceited?

Percy:

---

I think misattributing irrational viewpoints to people who never expressed any such thing is obnoxious, and that your continual claims of being right are conceited and probably hide deep seated insecurities.

---

---

Oh Percy, I'm so deeply insecure. Perhaps if I wore a mask, I would feel more secure.

Kleinman:

---

xongsmith claims that you made a post where you report how many people got Covid despite the fact they wore masks and got vaccinated and the number of people that got Covid and didn't wear a mask and did not get vaccinated. Where is that post?

Percy:

---

I already presented that graph again. A great deal of data exists and many studies have been conducted, but the kinds of things you're saying seem to indicate an unawareness of it, or perhaps you're aware but believe they're unreliable - I don't know, you don't say.
​
But a data driven discussion would be good, so as we develop a better idea of what data you'd like to see, we all as a group should have little trouble tracking it down.

---

---

Where is your mask data?

Kleinman:

---

Where's the mask?

Percy:

---

One thing at a time. Do you accept that graph as an indication of the effectiveness of the covid vaccines? If so then we can move on. If not then what data about vaccine effectiveness would you like to see?

---

---

Why are misattributing to me a claim that I never made? Where have I ever said that the Covid vaccine was ineffective? You are being obnoxious and conceited. Where is your data that shows that masks are effective?

Kleinman:

---

So your claim is that you can't trust individuals but you can trust institutions that have monetary and political interests to protect.

Percy:

---

Purposefully misinterpreting what people say isn't a good strategy. If this is something you'd like to say then say it, but there's little point in claiming I said it or meant anything like it because it's obvious I didn't.

---

---

So, do you or don't you trust the data that come out of institutions that have monetary and political interests to protect?

Kleinman:

---

I'm not as naive as you.

Percy:

---

You're starting to sound like a conspiracy enthusiast.

---

---

Next, you are going to tell me I'm deeply insecure. I tried wearing a mask, but it didn't make me feel secure, it did steam up my glasses.

Stupid Asshole writes: Do you trust a stranger down the street to cut you open for surgery?
No - you trust a Doctor, the Surgeon with a degree on the wall.Do you support wacko parents over Teaching Professionals about what gets taught in the classrooms?
No - you support the Professionals.Do you believe the Conspiracists who claim the moon landing was faked or do you believe the official story from NASA?
You believe the NASA version because you were there when it happened and also, in my case, used the data coming back from the mirrors Armstrong & Aldrin set up there to hone your orbit accuracy in predicting satellite orbits.Face it, Stupid Asshole...there are many things you have to trust "them" about to get along with your fellow friends on this journey of Life.Yes, it's a tough lesson for an Asshole like you to have to swallow.