COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

Stupid Asshole writes::

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So your claim is that you can't trust individuals but you can trust institutions that have monetary and political interests to protect. I'm not as naive as you.

xongsmith:

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Do you trust a stranger down the street to cut you open for surgery?
No - you trust a Doctor, the Surgeon with a degree on the wall.
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Do you support wacko parents over Teaching Professionals about what gets taught in the classrooms?
No - you support the Professionals.
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Do you believe the Conspiracists who claim the moon landing was faked or do you believe the official story from NASA?
You believe the NASA version because you were there when it happened and also, in my case, used the data coming back from the mirrors Armstrong & Aldrin set up there to hone your orbit accuracy in predicting satellite orbits.
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Face it, Stupid Asshole...there are many things you have to trust "them" about to get along with your fellow friends on this journey of Life.
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Yes, it's a tough lesson for an Asshole like you to have to swallow.

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xongsmith is having a little trouble posting mask data.

Public Health England (PHE) convened an expert Respiratory Evidence Panel in February 2021 to critically assess the evidence behind SARS-CoV-2 transmission to inform their guidance and recommendations.The panel comprised a group of infectious disease, hygiene, virology, microbiology, respiratory infection, engineering, occupational safety, and infection prevention and control (IPC) experts, including representation on relevant UK advisory panels (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) and New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG). Research and analysis

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The role of face coverings in mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 virus: statement from the Respiratory Evidence Panel (2021)
Updated 30 March 2023the evidence suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective in reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in both healthcare and public, community settings – this is through a combination of source control and protection to the wearer (high confidence)laboratory data shows that non-medical masks (such as cloth masks) made of 2 or 3 layers may have similar filtration efficiency to surgical masks (high confidence)epidemiological evidence (usually of low or very low certainty) from SARS-CoV-2 and other respiratory viruses suggests that, in healthcare settings, N95 respirators (or equivalent) may be more effective than surgical masks in reducing the risk of infection in the mask wearer [footnote 3] (low confidence)evidence, mainly from laboratory studies, suggests that face coverings should be well-fitted and cover the mouth and nose to increase effectiveness (as fit is a limiting factor in the overall mask protective efficiency independently of the filtration efficiency of its fabric) (high confidence)there is a need for improved training (in health and care settings) and public health messaging (in community settings) on mask fitting (and quality in the community) (medium confidence)there is insufficient evidence to support the use of double-masking in a healthcare setting (not ranked due to insufficient evidence) The role of face coverings in mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 virus: statement from the Respiratory Evidence Panel (2021) - GOV.UK

Tangle:

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Public Health England (PHE) convened an expert Respiratory Evidence Panel in February 2021 to critically assess the evidence behind SARS-CoV-2 transmission to inform their guidance and recommendations.
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The panel comprised a group of infectious disease, hygiene, virology, microbiology, respiratory infection, engineering, occupational safety, and infection prevention and control (IPC) experts, including representation on relevant UK advisory panels (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) and New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG).
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Research and analysis
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The role of face coverings in mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 virus: statement from the Respiratory Evidence Panel (2021)
Updated 30 March 2023
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the evidence suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective in reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in both healthcare and public, community settings – this is through a combination of source control and protection to the wearer (high confidence)
​
laboratory data shows that non-medical masks (such as cloth masks) made of 2 or 3 layers may have similar filtration efficiency to surgical masks (high confidence)
​
epidemiological evidence (usually of low or very low certainty) from SARS-CoV-2 and other respiratory viruses suggests that, in healthcare settings, N95 respirators (or equivalent) may be more effective than surgical masks in reducing the risk of infection in the mask wearer [footnote 3] (low confidence)
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evidence, mainly from laboratory studies, suggests that face coverings should be well-fitted and cover the mouth and nose to increase effectiveness (as fit is a limiting factor in the overall mask protective efficiency independently of the filtration efficiency of its fabric) (high confidence)
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there is a need for improved training (in health and care settings) and public health messaging (in community settings) on mask fitting (and quality in the community) (medium confidence)
​
there is insufficient evidence to support the use of double-masking in a healthcare setting (not ranked due to insufficient evidence)
​
The role of face coverings in mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 virus: statement from the Respiratory Evidence Panel (2021) - GOV.UK

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Is this your way of saying that you don't have the data that show that masks are effective? How many people in the UK got Covid despite wearing masks and how many people got Covid that didn't wear masks?

One example is Message 719 where you say evolutionary forces defeat the effectiveness of vaccines: Moving on: I think everyone here has picked up the strong impression that you don't believe the covid vaccines were very effective. If that's not the case then could you make your position clear? After that we can move on to masking. Really? "No I'm not, you are?" Geez.--Percy

This might seem odd to you kleinman, but I'm not responsible for collating health data on behalf of His Majesty's Government.What I do have is access to the meta analysis of all available evidence on the effectiveness of mask wearing during COVID in the UK from qualified experts.The full study is below. If you can find fault I suggest you contact them directly, I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/...are-settings.pdf

Kleinman:

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Why are misattributing to me a claim that I never made? Where have I ever said that the Covid vaccine was ineffective?

Percy:

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One example is Message 719 where you say evolutionary forces defeat the effectiveness of vaccines:

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And

Kleinman in Message 719 writes:

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Why don't you rewrite the mathematics I've presented that explains descent with modification and adaptation which defeats the effectiveness of vaccines, antimicrobial treatments, and cancer treatments when used as single drug therapies by selecting for drug-resistant variants including Covid?

Percy:

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Moving on:

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Explain to us why influenza vaccines are changed every year. And tell us why Covid vaccines are not 100% effective.

Kleinman:

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Where is your data that shows that masks are effective?

Percy:

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I think everyone here has picked up the strong impression that you don't believe the covid vaccines were very effective. If that's not the case then could you make your position clear? After that we can move on to masking.

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I can't help it if members of your forum jump to conclusions. Perhaps you think that descent with modification and adaptation increases the efficacy of vaccines (or drugs, or any other kind of selection pressure).My position on vaccines is that it is one of the best medical treatments physicians have to offer. But, I also tell my patients that there is a small risk associated with vaccination. The person may have an adverse reaction to the vaccine and that reaction can be severe. My hope is that pharmaceutical companies and government agencies that monitor the production of such drugs will test their products extensively to verify the safety and efficacy of their product. I'm not so sure this happened with the development and marketing of the Covid vaccine as attested to by the stories of normally healthy people suddenly dying after being given the vaccine. It takes time to collect this kind of data and I don't think that the pharmaceutical companies and government agencies responsible are highly motivated to collect such data.

Kleinman:

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You are being obnoxious and conceited.

Percy:

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Really? "No I'm not, you are?" Geez.

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Whatever

Kleinman:

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Is this your way of saying that you don't have the data that show that masks are effective?

Tangle:

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This might seem odd to you kleinman, but I'm not responsible for collating health data on behalf of His Majesty's Government.
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What I do have is access to the meta analysis of all available evidence on the effectiveness of mask wearing during COVID in the UK from qualified experts.
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The full study is below. If you can find fault I suggest you contact them directly, I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.
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https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/...are-settings.pdf

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I'm not asking you to collate any data, only to present data that shows that masks prevent the spread of Covid (or any other infectious disease).You don't understand the problem. Here is an illustration of one of the problems with masks. Here in California, the mask mandate gave an exception for young children. I don't know if you have ever been around young children, when they cough and sneeze, many of them don't cover their mouth and they aerosolize saliva. You could have the perfect mask but if you can't get young childrem to wear them or to get adults to wear them properly, they won't help. In addition, the portal of entry of an infectious agent isn't always inhalation. The agent may enter through the eyes or some break in the skin. If you want to improve your chances of not getting an infectious disease, try to avoid having people cough and sneeze on you.

Well, in another deep and unexpected development I can reveal that not only do I not collate data for HMG's research services, I don't have any to present to you either.What I DO have is the full report from the experts who DO have the data and their findings on it.
​ Funnily enough I do, and so do they. But we're getting pretty used to only kleinman understanding anything. Sheer genius, no-one but you would know all that! Please write to the expert panel who wrote the report and let them know that they got it all wrong!You seem to be a real expert in creating situations where a lack of the perfect solution means that nothing is worth doing at all. You're the living embodiment of the perfect being the enemy of the good and the false choice fallacy.

Kleinman:

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I'm not asking you to collate any data, only to present data that shows that masks prevent the spread of Covid (or any other infectious disease).

Tangle:

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Well, in another deep and unexpected development I can reveal that not only do I not collate data for HMG's research services, I don't have any to present to you either.

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What I DO have is the full report from the experts who DO have the data and their findings on it.​

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So, present their data, if you can.

ffs....will no-one rid me of this troublesome idiot?

Tangle:

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ffs....will no-one rid me of this troublesome idiot?

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Tangle is having difficulty posting the data that shows masks are effective. Why isn't Charlie Brown wearing a mask? Isn't he worried that he will give Covid to Lucy?

why don't YOU show us the data, Asshole?Asshole!
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Asshole!...and furthermore,
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xongsmith:

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why don't YOU show us the data, Asshole?
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...and furthermore,
Asshole!
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Asshole!

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There are no data that show the masks are effective in preventing the spread of Covid, otherwise one of this clique would have posted it. Why don't you try a personal energy shield, it can even protect you from blaster fire and other hazards.

Have a read of this.Just a moment...If you disagree, present your experimental data.

vimesey:

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Have a read of this.

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Just a moment...

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If you disagree, present your experimental data.

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Where have I seen this equation before? It is good to see that editors of SCIENCE have finally figured out that there is an "at least one" rule. They should have learned how to apply the rule in this paper Darwinian Evolution Can Follow Only Very Few Mutational Paths to Fitter Proteins. If they had, they could have explained the Weinreich paper and there would be plenty of experimental and empirical evidence to verify the use of the equation this way.Does this equation show that masks are effective? The last paragraph tells when they will be. Since you can't produce the data that masks have been effective, you want me to produce data that masks haven't been effective. Why haven't the institutions that track this kind of data, published their results? It couldn't be that the data shows that there is no significant benefit to the general usage of masks?