COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

They are not going to yank your papers since you paid them to be published. And you do not have a valid medical license in California. You can not practice. You are here under false premises. You are not a physician of any sort. You are a demented doctor wannabe with a diploma from a degree mill and delusions of your own genius.

They call him Dr. Death.

Sadly enough the nut job does have a valid medical license.
DCA - Search Details

I stand corrected.

Kleinman:

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20% of Americans have an STD, is that a healthy society?

Percy:

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You can continue asking the same question in different ways, but my answer is the same. Societies should share the cost of health because a healthy society benefits all.

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If some stranger moves into your home, you can't tell him to leave because he has a right to housing. Make sure your refrigerator is full, you don't want that person to go hungry. You really like to be generous with other people's money.

Kleinman:

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Many of these diseases are life-threatening and drug resistance is appearing in many others.

Percy:

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Sounds like a large and difficult problem that only society as a whole could tackle.

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Why don't you list for us the major factors that help prevent the spread of these diseases?

Kleinman:

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I've already given you my position on this subject, don't you remember?

Percy:

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Of course, but the nature of your continued questions strongly hints that you have more to say.

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The nature of my questions should give you a hint that you aren't stating your position. Who should be locked up for engaging in activity that increases the risk of spreading a contagious disease?

Kleinman:

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Does the real world ever come to a consensus that is wrong? If so, why are they found to be wrong?

Percy:

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The real world is never wrong.

Kleinman:

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What, no smilie?

Percy:

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No, no smilie, I was serious. You may have misinterpreted what I meant by real world. I was using it as a synonym for laws of the universe or natural physical laws, not the planet's population.

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So has xongsmith, he brought up flat earth.

Kleinman:

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What research study shows that you will never transmit an infectious disease?

Percy:

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None.

Kleinman:

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Somebody confine Percy, there is no research that shows that he won't transmit an infectious disease.

Percy:

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No such research exists for any of us, including you. And as I said previously, isolation must take into account both degree of contagiousness and the severity of the disease. A highly contagious disease that for most individuals presents with very mild symptoms, such as a cold, requires no isolation. But isolation might be considered for highly contagious diseases that can cause severe illness or death.

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Sorry, you need smilies to know when I'm being sarcastic. But your response to this is interesting, it shows that you don't know under which conditions what some consider a mild disease that is highly contagious can be serious to some people.

Kleinman:

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Why would people use the cliche "You can't treat viral diseases with antibiotics"?

Percy:

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Antibiotics have no effect on viruses.

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That is not necessarily correct.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ticle/pii/S0014299921003447

Percy:

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Studies have found that azithromycin is not an effective treatment for covid, including when combined with hydroxychloroquine. For example, this is from the Interpretation section of Azithromycin for community treatment of suspected COVID-19 in people at increased risk of an adverse clinical course in the UK (PRINCIPLE): a randomised, controlled, open-label, adaptive platform tria:

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quote:

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Our findings do not justify the routine use of azithromycin for reducing time to recovery or risk of hospitalisation for people with suspected COVID-19 in the community. These findings have important antibiotic stewardship implications during this pandemic, as inappropriate use of antibiotics leads to increased antimicrobial resistance, and there is evidence that azithromycin use increased during the pandemic in the UK.

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And this is from the Discussion section of Azithromycin versus standard care in patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 (ATOMIC2): an open-label, randomised trial:

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In conclusion, our findings in mild-to-moderate COVID-19 managed in ambulatory care, taken together with trials in early disease in primary care and from trials in patients admitted to hospital with severe disease, suggest that azithromycin does not reduce hospital admissions, respiratory failure, or death compared with standard care, and should not be used in the treatment of COVID-19.

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Kleinman:

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Studies have found that azithromycin is not an effective treatment for covid, including when combined with hydroxychloroquine. For example, this is from the Interpretation section of Azithromycin for community treatment of suspected COVID-19 in people at increased risk of an adverse clinical course in the UK (PRINCIPLE): a randomised, controlled, open-label, adaptive platform tria:

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quote:

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Our findings do not justify the routine use of azithromycin for reducing time to recovery or risk of hospitalisation for people with suspected COVID-19 in the community. These findings have important antibiotic stewardship implications during this pandemic, as inappropriate use of antibiotics leads to increased antimicrobial resistance, and there is evidence that azithromycin use increased during the pandemic in the UK.

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And this is from the Discussion section of Azithromycin versus standard care in patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 (ATOMIC2): an open-label, randomised trial:

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quote:

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In conclusion, our findings in mild-to-moderate COVID-19 managed in ambulatory care, taken together with trials in early disease in primary care and from trials in patients admitted to hospital with severe disease, suggest that azithromycin does not reduce hospital admissions, respiratory failure, or death compared with standard care, and should not be used in the treatment of COVID-19.

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Percy:

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It would make sense that anticipating opportunistic bacterial infections like pheumonia through early regimens of antibiotics like azithromycin on covid patients who have not yet contracted pneumonia would have a beneficial impact, but studies did not find one.

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As far as the antiviral effects of antibiotics, it's a large and complicated world out there. While antibiotics do not as a rule have any impact on viral infections, it is not inconceivable that there are cases where an antibiotic through some indirect channels has a measurable positive effect. Despite the findings of some researchers azithromycin didn't pan out, either to prevent pneumonia or to improve covid outcomes, and a casual Google search didn't turn up any antibiotics suggested for use with viral infections. But that doesn't mean none exist.

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I can tell you are a gambler and you would withhold antibiotics to someone with Covid based on the study you have presented because your risk/benefit calculation says the risks would outweigh the benefit. That may explain why pneumonia is one of the top reasons for hospital admission.
Causes of hospitalization in the USA between 2005 and 2018 | European Heart Journal Open | Oxford Academic
See Table 1As far as the antiviral effect of azithromycin, check this out.
Role of azithromycin in antiviral treatment: enhancement of interferon-dependent antiviral pathways and mitigation of inflammation may rely on inhibition of the MAPK cascade? - PubMed

Kleinman:

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Even the rhinovirus which is implicated in the common cold can cause serious disease.

Percy:

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E. coli, too.

Kleinman:

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You might be surprised at the number of lethal pathogens that you are exposed to every day.

Percy:

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But we don't worry about them because they are so rarely lethal, and usually only for people with comorbidities such as cancer or advanced age.

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Rhinoviruses: Common Colds | CDC There are many other papers that show the danger of rhinoviruses and other viruses considered mild by many people. The people at the CDC understand this but you don't.

Kleinman:

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What are the conditions that someone should be confined or lose their job due to any infectious disease?

Percy:

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You keep asking the same question in different ways. The answer hasn't changed. If there's a point you're trying to make beyond what you've already said then it would probably work better if you just stated it.

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I keep asking this because your answer is so vague. Where do you draw the line where you should confine someone?

Kleinman:

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Is Covid anything like Parkinson's or muscular dystrophy?

Percy:

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No.

Kleinman:

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Parkinson's is a consequence of the destruction of the substantia nigra, muscular dystrophy is a genetic disease. Covid is a viral disease. Influenza has been implicated as a causative factor for Parkinson's. Should influenza patients be confined?

Percy:

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How high are the risk factors?

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I don't know and you don't know. What Neurologists point to is the big jump in the incidence of Parkinson's disease in the 1930's after the Spanish Flu epidemic a decade earlier.

Kleinman:

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It certainly won't benefit his work on phylogenetics. It would reveal he is doing his mathematics incorrectly.

Percy:

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I think Felsenstein's actual point was that your math was already wrong at a basic level, and so there was no need to demonstrate that again in a more complex context.

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The problem for you and Felsenstein is that the math that I've presented fits the experimental data. Felsenstein doesn't produce a model that fits the experimental data even though he could, considering he wrote a text on the subject. Felsenstein is also unable to explain the thermodynamics of biological evolution.

Kleinman:

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I use the same terminology that Darwin uses and clearly define any terms I use.

Percy:

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The word "replication" never appears in Origin of Species.

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Kleinman:

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Do you think that Darwin understood DNA? He did understand the concept of "reproduction",...etc...

Percy:

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I only pointed out that Felsenstein used the term "generations" while you used the term "replications", and since you claim they're not synonymous that means you didn't actually address what Felsenstein said. You attempted to rebut this by claiming you used the same terminology as Darwin, but Darwin never used the term "replication." You then attempted a further defense by irrelevantly changing the subject to DNA and reproduction.
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The original question concerned your response to Felsenstein's comments. He employed the term "generations", but your response used the term "replications", and you said they do not mean the same thing. This makes it appear that you did not actually address what Felsenstein said. You need to respond to Felsenstein's comments in a way that actually addresses his concerns.

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Both generations and replications are variables used when describing the mathematical behavior of biological evolution. However, it is the total number of replications that a variant can do that determines the probability of an adaptive mutation occurring.Perhaps I should have asked the question this way. Why does it take a billion reproductions for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments?Is that question so confusing?

Kleinman:

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xongsmith will now prove to us that God does not exist.

xongsmith:

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I said it was OFF TOPIC. Apparently you cannot read.

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And

Kleinman:

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And then to get back on topic, he will explain why the Covid (or for that matter any) vaccine is not 100% effective.

xongsmith:

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I roll my eyes and think to myself "Jeezo, what a shitfuck this Kleinman is. An unmitigated SHITFUCK."
Then I post that here.
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How does it feel? To be all alone?

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Don't worry xongsmith, everyone knows you can't explain either.

Theodoric:

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Again as I said before, that is irrelevant to this topic. Are just going to continue repeating this?

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You brought up that your wife is a physician. Doesn't she know what to say when giving her patients antibiotics?

xongsmith:

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Re: Message 936 the Kleinbottle is a SHITFUCK.
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He must love how it feels - he does it so often.

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xongsmith can't show that there is no God and can't explain why vaccines are not 100% effective so he does what he can do best.

xongsmith:

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Of course - but it was the SHITFUCK's introduction of the term "consensus" that I took issue with.
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Of course the real world is never wrong, but the consensus of it is can be, because that is a humanly-determined characteristic.
The whole engine of the Scientific Method is to determine the real world, not the consensus of what people think it is.*
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* unless it is an actual scientific investigation of the various consensuses in the historical human world.

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xongsmith will now explain to us what the real world is. Then he will explain why there is no God and why vaccines are not 100% effective.

Kleinman:

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The medical board yanked my medical license just like the publisher yanked these two papers.

AZPaul3:

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They are not going to yank your papers since you paid them to be published. And you do not have a valid medical license in California. You can not practice. You are here under false premises. You are not a physician of any sort. You are a demented doctor wannabe with a diploma from a degree mill and delusions of your own genius.

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I paid the "open access" fee so cheapskates like you wouldn't have another thing to whine about. The publication of these papers cost me nothing and if they are wrong, they would be retracted, but they aren't retracted. And you could easily check the California Medical Board and see if I am licensed. So not only are you a cheapskate, you are lazy. Why don't you check the Department of Consumer Affairs and see if I'm also a licensed engineer? You won't because you are lazy.

Theodoric:

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Sadly enough the nut job does have a valid medical license.
DCA - Search Details

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And a valid engineering license. So, when are you going to tell us what your wife tells her patients when she starts them on antibiotics? She does have a valid medical license, doesn't she?

AZPaul3:

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I stand corrected.

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You need a lot of correction.

SHITFUCK writes: the fuck i will. i refuse except maybe standing over your deathbed as you die.you deserve ZERO replies and should be shunned, left on a melting glacier in the Arctic seas.

Kleinman:

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xongsmith will now explain to us what the real world is. Then he will explain why there is no God and why vaccines are not 100% effective.

xongsmith:

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the fuck i will. i refuse except maybe standing over your deathbed as you die.
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you deserve ZERO replies and should be shunned, left on a melting glacier in the Arctic seas.

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xongsmith is having difficulty explaining anything. But I'll explain how descent with modification and adaptation works, the Kishony and Lenski experiments, and why these experiments take a billion replications (reproductions if using Darwin's terminology) for each adaptive step (mutation) in the Kishony and Lenski experiments.
For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
Don't worry xongsmith, biologists can't explain it either.

What makes you think there's a right to housing? If you think it's germane to discussion, please list them for us. Your questions mostly imply I have opinions that I've never stated and that I do not hold. Your questions are of the "Are you still beating your wife" variety. And this question is a good example. I never advocated locking anyone up, so why are you asking me this? I said that balancing personal freedoms against public safety is a tough problem, that I have no answers for you, and I've said it several times now. If you think those conditions would contribute to the discussion, go ahead and describe them for us. I keep saying I have no answers for you. If you have answers please tell us.--Percy