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Author | Topic: COVID vaccine works - we're saved! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Do you think society should be required to pay for someone elses healthcare but not their housing? You like to be generous, with other people's money. Kleinman:I'll list them for you if you can explain whether or not they need to be taken into account in any statistical analysis. Kleinman:I'm not asking you if you are still beating your wife, I'm asking you under what conditions someone should be confined if they have a contagious disease. I've given you my opinion on the specific conditions, but you haven't given those conditions. Kleinman:Even here in California, they will lock up people with HIV if they have sex with their partner without informing them that they have HIV. So, what are your conditions? Kleinman:I've already given you those conditions and they were also given in the references I gave. Since you don't seem to get the point, I'll repeat them again for you. People with weakened immune systems and comorbidities (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, asthma,...) are at much greater risk from diseases that might be considered mild. This should be obvious to you. That's why Governor Cuomo from New York made a major blunder when he confined elderly people in rest homes and caused a large number of deaths from Covid. Kleinman:I've already given you many answers based on by experience. When it comes to infectious diseases, whatever you do, you must include close follow-up with the patient. You can't just say, "Take all your medicine" and not give the patient an idea of what should happen during treatment. Statistical data can be useful but if the data is inconclusive such as mask usage, you can't make hard and fast rules based on that data. And I've told you when someone should be confined with an infectious disease. If the person knows they have an infectious disease and still purposely engages in activities that can increase the risk of spreading that disease without others knowing it, lock that person up. If they don't know they have the infectious disease but engage in activities that spread the disease, this person should be notified to cease the activity but not be locked up. Your argument is that people should be required to wear masks. The problem with your argument is that you assume people will wear an effective mask in an appropriate manner. The data does not show this. This shows that people that insist on a general mask mandate have not prepared the public correctly and may well have given people a false sense of security and actually caused an increase in the spread of the disease.
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Do you think society should be required to pay for someone elses healthcare but not their housing? You like to be generous, with other people's money. What do you think society's goal should be?
I'll list them for you if you can explain whether or not they need to be taken into account in any statistical analysis. Why do you need me to explain anything before you list them?
I'm not asking you if you are still beating your wife, I'm asking you under what conditions someone should be confined if they have a contagious disease. Are you telling us you don't understand how your questions are "Are you still beating your wife" style questions?
I've given you my opinion on the specific conditions, but you haven't given those conditions. If you already know the specific conditions, why do you need me to give them to you?
Even here in California, they will lock up people with HIV if they have sex with their partner without informing them that they have HIV. So, what are your conditions? Wasn't that the law that was changed a couple years ago?
I've already given you those conditions and they were also given in the references I gave. If you've already told us those conditions, why do you keep asking me what they are?
Since you don't seem to get the point, I'll repeat them again for you. People with weakened immune systems and comorbidities (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, asthma,...) are at much greater risk from diseases that might be considered mild. This should be obvious to you. Of course it's obvious to me. I just said the same thing a few messages ago. It's probably obvious to everyone here because it's just common sense.
That's why Governor Cuomo from New York made a major blunder when he confined elderly people in rest homes and caused a large number of deaths from Covid. Why do you think it was Cuomo who confined them? Weren't they already there when covid started? What should have been done instead?
I've already given you many answers based on by experience. Great. I guess that just about wraps it up, then. --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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Irrelevant to the topic.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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SHITFUCK attacks Percy with more misinterpretations like:
The problem with your (Percy's) argument is that you (Percy) assume people will wear an effective mask in an appropriate manner. Jeezo man, you are fucking shit again! See, you forgot the important part where Percy argues that the people who are in a group of people who wear the masks correctly are more likely to get others to wear them correctly. Even in Message 908 Percy writes:
As to how effectively children wear masks, I expect that how well any group wears masks is dependent upon their average competency, and the greater the competency of a group the more likely its members are to wear masks effectively. I'd guess that the very young and the very old are least likely to wear masks properly. Doesn't that imply that EDUCATION is the important factor? Now, as for your denial that you don't ask "when did you stop beating your wife" questions, what do you call this from your Message 920?
What research study shows that you will never transmit an infectious disease? "I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Read the Bible and you can find out. Kleinman:It is called preparation. You put the cart before the horse. You show evidence that masks work and then jump to the conclusion that a general mandate should work but you don't consider whether people wear an effective mask appropriately. Do you think you could scrub in for a surgery without any instruction and do it properly? You have to learn how to wash your hands appropriately, learn how to put on sterile gloves in a sterile manner, how a sterile gown must be put on to avoid contamination, how to put on an effective mask in an appropriate manner, and so on. And now you want to prevent the transmission of an airborne disease with a mask alone, without any instruction at all to the population. It shouldn't surprise you that the data doesn't show that this kind of policy has been effective. Kleinman:If you can't tell us what you think the conditions are that someone should be confined for spreading an infectious disease, say so. Instead, you find a line in a paper that you think supports your viewpoint about masks when the same paper has paragraphs saying that there are confounding factors in the analysis. Kleinman:I'm trying to get you to think about what you propose. Kleinman:Yes, it was appropriately changed. Even California politicians realize how bad the original law was. What sense was in that law that removed all legal consequences from someone with HIV if they have sex with a partner and don't tell them beforehand that they have HIV? Kleinman:To see whether you understand. I don't think you fully appreciate how complex the treatment and prevention of infectious diseases are. It is not always as simple as wearing a mask and getting a vaccination. Kleinman:It is obvious to you now. Kleinman:I don't think you fully understand what Cuomo did. Andrew Cuomo’s Report on Controversial Nursing Home Policy for COVID Patients Prompts More Controversy — ProPublica In defense of a controversial policy to send COVID-19 positive patients from hospitals into nursing homes, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s health department issued a report on Monday saying that the directive did not significantly contribute to the nearly 6,500 deaths that have occurred to date in homes across the state.
And
As ProPublica reported last month, New York’s nursing homes suffered a larger percentage of deaths relative to its total nursing home population than several states that did not have such a policy in place.
Cuomo ordered people hospitalized with Covid be sent to nursing homes.
The state’s directive infuriated many health experts, families of residents and nursing home operators who said they were already ill-prepared and struggling to keep residents safe amid the growing COVID threat. They worried that the policy would needlessly lead to additional infections and deaths inside the homes. Cuomo ultimately rescinded the policy on May 10, after more than 6,000 residents had died and the fears about overwhelmed hospitals had faded. At the time, Cuomo also implemented a range of measures to protect nursing home residents, including routine testing of all staff.Kleinman:That's fine. I noticed you had a thread and are a strong advocate for gun control. Since you think that society is obligated to pay for people's health care, I was wondering if you think people have a right of self-defense?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Theodoric:That's as good an excuse as any for your wife not being able to explain what her patients should do when she starts them on antibiotics. You probably shouldn't bring up that your wife is a physician if she doesn't know this basic medical principle.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:xongsmith is going to start an organization called the Society for the Correct Wearing of Masks. He will do that right after he gives us proof that God doesn't exist, why vaccines aren't 100% effective which means he can explain descent with modification and adaptation, the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments, and why it takes a billion reproductions for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiments.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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SHITFUCKER suggests:
Read the Bible and you can find out. which one? the old testament or the new testament? the Torah? the Koran? the Bhagavad Gita? the King James? they all say different things depending on how the writers at the time wanted to control their flock."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:The Torah is the first five books of the old testament. The old testament and new testament together form the Bible. Read any of the Torah, old testament, or new testament and you can find out. What makes you think that something isn't controlling you right now?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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SHITFUCKER continues to LIE:
You show evidence that masks work and then jump to the conclusion that a general mandate should work but you don't consider whether people wear an effective mask appropriately. Do you think you could scrub in for a surgery without any instruction and do it properly? You have to learn how to wash your hands appropriately, learn how to put on sterile gloves in a sterile manner, how a sterile gown must be put on to avoid contamination, how to put on an effective mask in an appropriate manner, and so on. And now you want to prevent the transmission of an airborne disease with a mask alone, without any instruction at all to the population. It shouldn't surprise you that the data doesn't show that this kind of policy has been effective. As even I showed, Percy has abundantly demonstrated that EDUCATION is the important factor. You are a SHITFUCKER for lying. Or you are illiterate and cannot read."I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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The old testament and new testament together form the Bible what is the difference between the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible? Why are the books of Matthew treated differently?Why isn't the Koran just as good? why is the One of some guesstimate of 1500 god stories that you werebrought up with the Right One and the other ~1499 stories are wrong? Who made you king? Speaking of spreading disease... Edited by xongsmith, : Religion is a disease "I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Why don't you show us your education by proving that God doesn't exist? Then you can show us why vaccines are not 100% effective, how descent with modification and adaptation works, how the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments work, and why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski experiment.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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This is OFF TOPIC and should be moved to another thread.
Why don't you show us your education by proving that God doesn't exist? You cannot prove a negative. Even you know that. How do you know I don't believe God exists?I could be a Deist, for all you know. Do you have any objective peer-reviewed evidence God exists one way or the other?There are whole threads here at EvC on Intelligent Design that are more appropriate channels to use. "I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:You need to ask experts in the Bible about the differences between the Protestant, Jewish, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon, and Catholic Bibles. Christianity is different from all other religions in that God Himself pays the price for our sins and restores our relationship with God. All other religions claim that the person can do some action and make him/herself acceptable to God. That is a very low view of the holiness of God and the price that had to be paid for our sin.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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I don't think He gives a blue SHIT, frankly.
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
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