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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't see why we shouldn't take credit for the good things we have accomplished.
You would rather blame Him (or Conservative Followers) for the bad things and give you and your fellow humans credit for the good things! Phat writes:
More than that, we will try to prevent them.
In fact, most liberal humanists blame and will blame the followers for the coming bad things which I predict will happen. Phat writes:
Thinking made me a skeptic. He made you a skeptic... And you keep saying "skeptic" as if it was a bad thing. Why do you do that?
Phat writes:
There you go again, mocking what Jesus said.
... so go give away spare change and live your life as best as you can. Phat writes:
That's an odd take on "by their fruits ye shall know them". In your addled mind, are my fruits something to be emulated or something poisonous? I'll try my best to emulate your behavior in that way while being careful not to poison my mind with your conclusions regarding God's existence!"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: Your fruits are fine. You obey the message rather than the messenger whom you believe is a mythic character. I would do well to try and give as much spare change as you do, but I refuse to enable alcoholics and perpetual panhandlers. In your addled mind, are my fruits something to be emulated or something poisonous? The mythic character and I are engaged in serious discussions regarding my fruits. I do listen occasionally. Add By Edit:In fact, most liberal humanists blame and will blame Conservative Christian followers for the coming bad things which I predict will happen. ringo writes: More than that, we will try to prevent them. Some of your methods will cause more harm than good. Take digital currency for example. Are you in favor of the Federal Reserve knowing the net worth of every private citizen? If you say yes, it will confirm your ignorance.Edited by Phat, . "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then why are you worried about "poisoning your mind" with my conclusions?
Your fruits are fine. Phat writes:
It isn't about enabling. That's just a copout, an excuse to do nothing. I refuse to enable alcoholics and perpetual panhandlers. They're going to be enabled, if not by you then by somebody else. It's about dignity. If somebody asks me for help, who am I to decide whether he really, really, really needs help? I don't buy that 12-step bullshit about how "you can't do it yourself". On the contrary, they HAVE to do it themselves. No matter what help and encouragement they get, they still have to make the final decision themselves. So I give them the dignity of allowing them to make the decision with no interference from me.
Phat writes:
I don't know (or care) about the Federal Reserve but the IRS should definitely know the net worth of every citizen. (I don't know why you say "private" citizen.) How else are they going to know if the citizen is paying his fair share? Your far-right handlers don't want the IRS to prevent them from stealing from YOU, but you keep enabling them.
Are you in favor of the Federal Reserve knowing the net worth of every private citizen? Phat writes:
How so? (I'm going to break my own rule and predict that you won't answer.)
If you say yes, it will confirm your ignorance. Phat writes:
Collecting income tax is not "my method". It's society's method. So go ahead and give sone actual examples of "my methods" and how they do more harm than good. Some of your methods will cause more harm than good. "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: The government should not be so up in our business. Thats why I say "private citizen". The IRS should not be authoritarians. They already have the information we provide them at our jobs. They have no right to know what I have buried in my backyard! Conservatives in general want less government. Liberals seem to want more. Which is what makes you authoritarians. If Jesus cant make me give it all up, the government sure won't! And by the way, I'm fully legal. I just don't like nosy IRS agents. I don't know (or care) about the Federal Reserve but the IRS should definitely know the net worth of every citizen. (I don't know why you say "private" citizen.) How else are they going to know if the citizen is paying his fair share? As an example, if someone owns gold or silver, they can legally sell under a certain dollar amount at a time and remain off the books. Digital currency will change that. The liberals are obsessed with this whole "fair share" thing. Who the hell are you to tell me what's fair? I'll pay what I'm required to pay and not what *YOU* think I should pay. Period. Your idea of Utopia suggests a police state where everyone is forced to distribute their income. Something even Jesus wouldn't approve of."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
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Conservatives in general want less government. Liberals seem to want more. That's not what I see. It looks to me as if the conservatives want to control what books are in the libraries, they want to control the school curriculum, they want to control who you can befriend.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
you have a point. There are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum.
I don't want the world-at-large to become as divisive and polarized as US politics now is."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Sure they do. That's how they got Al Capone.
The IRS should not be authoritarians. They already have the information we provide them at our jobs. They have no right to know what I have buried in my backyard! Phat writes:
As I have told you before, if/when the government comes to collect, you WILL pay up. Stop talking like a one of those militia idiots. (Is that a cache of guns in your back yard?)
If Jesus cant make me give it all up, the government sure won't! Phat writes:
You're such a slave to right-wing propaganda. If you're legal, the IRS are on your side, trying to collect from the rich bastards, like Trump, who are NOT legal.
And by the way, I'm fully legal. I just don't like nosy IRS agents.
Phat writes:
In your posts, I always stop reading at "gold". You know nothing about it.
As an example, if someone owns gold.... Phat writes:
Who are YOU decide all by your little self what's fair? It's up to society as a whole.
The liberals are obsessed with this whole "fair share" thing. Who the hell are you to tell me what's fair? Phat writes:
I think you should pay what you're required to pay. Period. When have I ever given you reason to think otherwise?
I'll pay what I'm required to pay and not what *YOU* think I should pay. Period. Phat writes:
I have no idea of Utopia.
Your idea of Utopia... Phat writes:
Just for once, for a change, would you THINK before you blather such nonsense? ... suggests a police state where everyone is forced to distribute their income. First, where have I EVER suggested anything resembling a police state? Second, EVERY nation "forces" its citizens to distribute their income. Ever hear of taxes? Third, YOU are the beneficiary of much of that distribution. Ever go to a public school? Ever drive on a public road? Ever hear of a Fire Department or a Police Department or an Army or a Navy or an Air Force? In your sheer bone-headed, stupidity, do you want to get rid of all of those?
Phat writes:
Well, the Jews had public schules and the Romans had public roads - and Jesus told the people to pay their taxes, so clearly He DID approve. Pull your head out of your ass. Something even Jesus wouldn't approve of."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
ringo writes: Lets take this over here.
Just for once, for a change, would you THINK before you blather such nonsense?I think you should pay what you're required to pay. Period. When have I ever given you a reason to think otherwise? The issue is that you think that an elected government has every right to collect what it needs no matter what the amount for the benefit of the meth addict under the bridge as well as the hard-working middle-class guy that appreciates libraries, armies, and fire departments. I see it day after day. The guy under the bridge trashes public restrooms, has no respect for himself or others, and feeds his addiction from guys like you that give him a few dollars when he looks all forlorn with a sign. My point is not to sound like a greedy entitled asshole. My point is that you can't simply legislate financial help and expect things to change. You (we) need more than that.
As I have told you before, if/when the government comes to collect, you WILL pay up. I like how you sound so authoritarian when it suits you. You will find a civil war instead. The populists and their "clown cars" are warming up in the wings.
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why is that even an issue? Yes, the government has every right (and duty) to collect what it needs for libraries, armies and fire departments. The issue is that you think that an elected government has every right to collect what it needs no matter what the amount for the benefit of the meth addict under the bridge as well as the hard-working middle-class guy that appreciates libraries, armies, and fire departments We can't just let the meth addicts burn; the fire might spread next door to the hard-working middle-class guy. We can't just let your buddy Putin invade the country because it will effect the hard-working middle-class guy along with the meth addict. We're all in the same boat.
Phat writes:
I have explained it to you many, many, many times before. The meth dealer shops at your store. The spare change I give circulates. The dollar i give to the meth addict that he gives to his dealer, that he gives to your store is no different from the dollar that YOU spend on too much sugar.
The guy under the bridge trashes public restrooms, has no respect for himself or others, and feeds his addiction from guys like you that give him a few dollars when he looks all forlorn with a sign. Phat writes:
Sure we can. We know that things DO change. My favorite aunt's husband died, leaving her with five small children. She went on welfare for a while and eventually went back to work. The children all grew up to be productive members of society - and so did their children. My point is that you can't simply legislate financial help and expect things to change. How can you even suggest that that legislated financial help didn't change anything?
Phat writes:
But you're not suggesting more. You're suggesting less. You (we) need more than that. Have you ever seen the movie Soylent Green? They use garbage trucks to scoop up "undesirables". Is that the "more" you have in mind?
Phat writes:
What's "authoritarian" about it? I'm just predicting that your bluster won't come to anything. They'll give you the bill and you'll pay. (Unless you hide your money away. But you said you'd never do anything illegal.)
ringo writes:
I like how you sound so authoritarian when it suits you. As I have told you before, if/when the government comes to collect, you WILL pay up. Phat writes:
I don't know what insane corner of your mind that came from. You will find a civil war instead.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
And now prepare for him to claim that the government caused the implosion of cryptocurrencies.
I love listening to a guy that knows absolutely nothing about economics, monetary policy, and currency spout about the subjects. It does no good to explain reality to him because he will go on youtube and listen to another shark that will fill his head with crap. I am sure his crypto and gold are doing well. Lol. Edited by Theodoric, : wording What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Tangle writes: I wouldnt get so dramatic. You believed stories when you were younger and you believed in the people who taught you. Its likely that you never actually met God. (I am not to judge, however. Merely to speculate) I did believe - heart and soul, the whole 10 yards. Then suddenly realized it was a pile of horse manure from top to bottom. Anti-road to Damascus moment. Now why would God do that if it meant my damnation? You might be finished with "God" once reason and rational thought (and perhaps other people in whom to trust) entered your life but it is my belief that He is not finished with you. It is not my job to convince you. It is my job to improve my behavior and my actions in life since I claim to represent being a believer.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Phat writes: Its likely that you never actually met God. Likely? It's an absolute fucking certainty! But I tell you straight, I thought I had. Just like you.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Nope. Not just like me. I have also thought I had until I did.
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Theo writes: Why do you imagine yourself a teacher of reality? How much do you really know? It does no good to explain reality to him...
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Some things can only be subjective.
examples please.
I say that your idea of reality is shaped by your peers, what you listen to, who you listen to
What you say is irrelevant.
And sometimes you have no evidence
Until there is evidence there is probably no reason to consider.
And why do you feel that I am incapable of reason?
Have I stated this?What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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