Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 57 (9173 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Post Volume: Total: 917,585 Year: 4,842/9,624 Month: 190/427 Week: 0/103 Day: 0/8 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Israel Declares War For The First Time Since 1973.
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 31 of 378 (913155)
10-14-2023 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
10-13-2023 11:09 AM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
There is so much wrong with this analogy. First of all indigenous Americans are not one homogenous people. Second of all the US was not given to Europeans by some sort of international decree. Third, since the founding of the UN the US treatment of indigenous people is in no way like the Israeli treatment of Palestinians. I will stop with three.
Also, the UN has made decisions counter to US policy toward its colonies. The US just ignores it.
Special Committee on Decolonization Approves Resolution Calling upon United States to Promote Process for Puerto Rico’s Self-Determination, Eventual Independence | UN Press

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 10-13-2023 11:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 32 of 378 (913156)
10-14-2023 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by marc9000
10-14-2023 10:47 AM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
Feining ignorance is never a good look.
Basic research puts a lie to your claim.
Israel-Palestine history: The deep roots of the Israel-Gaza conflict - Vox

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by marc9000, posted 10-14-2023 10:47 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by marc9000, posted 10-14-2023 9:01 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 33 of 378 (913162)
10-14-2023 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
10-14-2023 7:24 AM


Re: Follow The Money
It was an allowed release of funds that the West controlled through sanctions.
so it wasn't a repayment of funds by Biden like you originally claimed.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 10-14-2023 7:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Theodoric, posted 10-14-2023 1:08 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 34 of 378 (913164)
10-14-2023 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
10-14-2023 7:24 AM


Re: Follow The Money
Lying for jesus again? Or just stupid?
Even Harvard is so liberal that it is on Palestines side even after this atrocious attack.
So is BLM.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 10-14-2023 7:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9276
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 35 of 378 (913165)
10-14-2023 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by DrJones*
10-14-2023 12:47 PM


Re: Follow The Money
Not sure if he is just stupid or an inveterate liar for jesus.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by DrJones*, posted 10-14-2023 12:47 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Phat, posted 10-14-2023 2:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 36 of 378 (913169)
10-14-2023 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Theodoric
10-14-2023 1:08 PM


Re: Follow The Money
Neither. Next question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Theodoric, posted 10-14-2023 1:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 37 of 378 (913171)
10-14-2023 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Theodoric
10-14-2023 11:28 AM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
Feining ignorance is never a good look.
Thank you for your gracious welcome back.
Basic research puts a lie to your claim.
WHAT CLAIM WAS THAT? I never made a claim, I asked a question! I realize there are far-left websites that are anti-Israel, but if those things are true, why aren't they all over the mainstream news? I seldom miss ABC World News Tonight, the "MOST WATCHED PROGRAM IN ALL OF TELEVISION", news or otherwise. I also know that NBC, CBS, CNN, PBS, all report news with a similar liberal bias as ABC. If I'm ignorant of something they're all not reporting on, or barely reporting on, then the vast majority of U.S. population is ignorant of it as well. AOC and one or two others (Omar, Tlaib?) have recently made put-down statements about Israel that are more mild than what Percy said, and they've been roundly criticized for it. Biden is falling all over himself in his support for Israel. Your link referenced that, but didn't seriously criticize him for it.
The political left in this country has a disdain for Israel, largely because of the Judeo-Christian morality Israel has traditionally represented, and because of Israel's free markets. Why is it so politically incorrect for them to shout it from the rooftops, similar to the way they do for their constant Trump hate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Theodoric, posted 10-14-2023 11:28 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 1:31 AM marc9000 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 38 of 378 (913172)
10-15-2023 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by marc9000
10-14-2023 9:01 PM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
Biden is falling all over himself in his support for Israel.
Is that what you call standing up and stating in no uncertain terms his support? Is that what you call the restructuring of our forces in the area? You think that's "falling all over" for something?
Some would consider that looking the arab world straight in the eye and saying, "Make my day, Punk!"
Your link referenced that, but didn't seriously criticize him for it.
Why should they?
The political left in this country has a disdain for Israel, largely because of the Judeo-Christian morality Israel has traditionally represented, ...
Judeo-Christian morality is the evil poison your religions used to create this bloody inhumane situation. Judeo-Christian morality is responsible for these crimes and deserves all disdain for all time.
... and because of Israel's free markets.
The stupid burns.
Hey, uh, marc? This is BS. They are Keynesian just like the rest of the world.
Why is it so politically incorrect for them to shout it from the rooftops, similar to the way they do for their constant Trump hate?
Come on, marc. Hating on Trump is closer to home. It also has a more compelling reason to it. We're trying to keep you fascists from the oval office. That's a priority.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by marc9000, posted 10-14-2023 9:01 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 10-15-2023 6:27 AM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 10-15-2023 10:38 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 42 by marc9000, posted 10-15-2023 8:17 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 39 of 378 (913175)
10-15-2023 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by AZPaul3
10-15-2023 1:31 AM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
AZAlternatives3 writes:
Judaeo-Christian morality is the evil poison your religions used to create this bloody inhumane situation. Judaeo-Christian morality is responsible for these crimes and deserves all disdain for all time.
You and I would argue this one until the sacred cows came home!
Granted, Israel has *not* represented the morality. One could argue that they have an eye for an eye approach to terrorism, but they could try to win the hearts and minds of the Palestinian people rather than allow a terrorist minority to represent Palestine and make them look like they will hate Israel forever!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 1:31 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 40 of 378 (913181)
10-15-2023 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by AZPaul3
10-15-2023 1:31 AM


Free Palestine How?
AZDoesIt3 responding to marc9000 writes:
They are Keynesian just like the rest of the world.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Keynes was wrong? Not everyone can sit atop a mountain of oil or natural gas. How is a nation going to trade with others so as to guarantee an even exchange? What can Palestine do to become free? What commodity do they have to trade with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 1:31 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 11:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 41 of 378 (913182)
10-15-2023 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
10-15-2023 10:38 AM


Re: Free Palestine How?
Did it ever occur to anyone that Keynes was wrong?
No.
How is a nation going to trade with others so as to guarantee an even exchange?
Maybe a marketplace? How about a mercantile exchange floor?
What can Palestine do to become free?
Kill Israel.
What commodity do they have to trade with?
70 years of Israeli occupation and all that has been allowed to Palestine is segregation, war and pain. None of those export very well. Besides, all imports/exports to/from Palestine must, by militarily enforced law, be routed through and approved (taxed) by Israel.
Palestine's economy these last 70 years is a direct result of Israeli design and enforcement. As is their political state. Three generations of direct overt oppression and you wonder why the Palestinians are so pissed?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 10-15-2023 10:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by marc9000, posted 10-15-2023 8:22 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 42 of 378 (913187)
10-15-2023 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by AZPaul3
10-15-2023 1:31 AM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
marc9000 writes:
Biden is falling all over himself in his support for Israel.

Is that what you call standing up and stating in no uncertain terms his support? Is that what you call the restructuring of our forces in the area? You think that's "falling all over" for something?
Yes.
Some would consider that looking the arab world straight in the eye and saying, "Make my day, Punk!"
Yes, the same thing just about any Republican would have done Including Trump. The big difference is that the arab world would have taken a Republican seriously, instead of laughing at Biden.
marc9000 writes:
Your link referenced that, [Biden's support for Israel] but didn't seriously criticize him for it.

Why should they?
Because of what Percy said about Israel being a terrible country? Because of Theodoric's link calling Israel a terrible country? Because of current protests at some college campuses in the U.S that support Hamas? Because of what YOU said about Judeo Christian morality being evil? Is the blind loyalty to Biden far worse than the mainstream media claims about the "cult" of blind loyalty to Trump?
Judeo-Christian morality is the evil poison your religions used to create this bloody inhumane situation. Judeo-Christian morality is responsible for these crimes and deserves all disdain for all time.
Yet if Biden expresses support for Israel, you're fine with that?
Come on, marc. Hating on Trump is closer to home. It also has a more compelling reason to it. We're trying to keep you fascists from the oval office. That's a priority.
More than securing the southern border? Hamas is probably already here in large numbers.
But you should really try to learn what words actually mean.
quote:
Ronald Reagan: Always has been. How do we call a liberal? You know someone very profoundly once said many years ago, that if fascism ever comes to America it will come in name of liberalism. And what is fascism? Fascism is private ownership, private enterprise, but total government control and regulation. Well, isn’t this the liberal philosophy. The conservative so-called, is the one that says less government, get off my back, get out of my pocket, and let me have more control of my own destiny.
(bolded mine)
Ronald Reagan statement on Liberalism during 1975 interview by Mike Wallace on 60 Minutes - The Thinking Conservative
Free markets, but with more and more gun control, more and more climate regulation, more and more 'license, regulate, restrict, prohibit', in more and more ways. Today's Democrats. Republicans / conservatives are not the fascists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 1:31 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 10:28 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 43 of 378 (913188)
10-15-2023 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by AZPaul3
10-15-2023 11:16 AM


Re: Free Palestine How?
Phat writes:
What can Palestine do to become free?

Kill Israel.
Why do you have nothing to say about Biden's support of Israel?
Palestine's economy these last 70 years is a direct result of Israeli design and enforcement. As is their political state. Three generations of direct overt oppression and you wonder why the Palestinians are so pissed?
Another reason they're pissed is because no other Arab countries want them! They're not productive. They don't have a Judeo Christian work ethic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 11:16 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(5)
Message 44 of 378 (913189)
10-15-2023 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by marc9000
10-15-2023 8:17 PM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
The big difference is that the arab world would have taken a Republican seriously, instead of laughing at Biden.
The whole world has been laughing at Trump, literally, since his first UN speech.
Because of what Percy said about Israel being a terrible country? Because of Theodoric's link calling Israel a terrible country? Because of current protests at some college campuses in the U.S that support Hamas? Because of what YOU said about Judeo Christian morality being evil?
These are facts, marc. Israel IS an oppressive government. Israel IS a terrible religious régime like Iran. That's not Biden's doing but Netanyahu's. Criticizing Biden for Israel's evil is damn stupid, marc.
And I see you want to blame Biden for Americans expressing themselves as is our constitutional right. Oh, that's right, you're a Trump fascist and the constitution is your enemy.
Also, cry as you might, you cannot blame Biden, call for any criticism of Biden, for my observations on religious immorality. You're not paying attention to the reality of this discussion. Your scattershot observations are bogus.
Regardless of your feigned snowflake concerns, marc, the fact is Israel is fucking evil in a region of absolute evil and we need the ally in the area. Fuck morality. Larger global concerns rule where the oil is.
Is the blind loyalty to Biden far worse than the mainstream media claims about the "cult" of blind loyalty to Trump?
We have seen your blind loyalty to Trump in the face of the greatest stupidity of a bungled issurrection directed from the oval office itself. You sided with insurgency. You are not American. You are a fascist trumpette.
You are much, much worse. Rather than supporting the USofA in deciding among ugly alternatives, you burn the flag in front of our enemies because our actual legally elected president is not the one you wanted.
And it doesn't matter what decision is made. You piss on our flag because a democrat is deciding. Poor snowflake.
Yet if Biden expresses support for Israel, you're fine with that?
Of course, fool.
The geopolitical realities of the new world order will be served. The USofA needs the presence and strength of an ally in that area where all the oil is. Israel, as disgusting as their domestic policies are to the world's humanism, is that ally.
Hating on Trump is closer to home. It also has a more compelling reason to it.
More than securing the southern border?
Gee, let me think here. Defending the democracy of our nation from a direct insurrection by a domestic oligarch or go to Texas and put up an ineffective fence. Decisions, decisions.
Marc, you're an idiot.
Hamas is probably already here in large numbers.
So are the taliban, Russian SVR RF, mossad, Taylor Swift fans ...
What are you afraid of, marc? Reality? Your scarmonger doesn't work here.
But you should really try to learn what words actually mean.
quote:
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
Fascist
noun A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
noun A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
noun Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Trump republicans. Marc9000. Un-Americans. Fascists.
Yep, fits well.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by marc9000, posted 10-15-2023 8:17 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by xongsmith, posted 10-16-2023 2:22 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2600
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 45 of 378 (913191)
10-16-2023 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by AZPaul3
10-15-2023 10:28 PM


Re: It All Started With the Nakba
AZPaul3 writes:
we need the ally in the area. Fuck morality. Larger global concerns rule where the oil is.
But wasn't it Golda Meyer who once remarked "Moses wanders all over the Middle East for 40 years and settles on the only place with no oil"?

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2023 10:28 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 10-16-2023 7:18 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024