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Author Topic:   Atheists: Time to Come Out of the Closet!
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 171 days)
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 135 of 174 (913975)
12-16-2023 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Dredge
12-14-2023 9:16 AM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Dredge writes:
Without God, morality can be literally anything you want it to be - for example, the Nazis and Pol Pot thought it moral to murder millions of innocent people
And throughout the centuries, the Catholic Church has thought so, too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Dredge, posted 12-14-2023 9:16 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 171 days)
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 140 of 174 (914005)
12-17-2023 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Dredge
12-17-2023 5:43 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Dredge writes:
Please explain how a meaningless process can produce something that has meaning.
Okey dokey.
How Meaning Came into the World
First there was no universe, then there was.
After that instance of becoming, the universe unfolded to its current state according to natural processes.
First there was no life, then there was.
After that instance of becoming, life thrived in many forms. From among those forms emerged ours -- becoming ever more aware of the natural, predictable foundations of our existence.
First we had no idea where we came from, then we did.
Looking up from our stories of creation to our present views of it from 13 billion years away, we have found nothing that requires intervention from outside the natural order, nothing that requires mindful purpose.
First there was no meaning ...
From our knowledge of our astounding origin in the stars, to our discovery of empathy, morality and a sense of fairness in our primate cousins; from the experiential fusion of the rose's beauty and our understanding of its secrets (and the secrets of the worm), and from the firmament of human love and compassion that connects us -- through all these wonders we pass, and our understanding grows.
We have become mindful. We have purpose: we endure, we know things, and we love each other, and that's how meaning came into the world.
We made it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Dredge, posted 12-17-2023 5:43 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2023 6:17 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 171 days)
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 144 of 174 (914015)
12-18-2023 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Dredge
12-18-2023 6:17 PM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Descartes once discussed a proof of God's existence, then claimed that as long as it was mentally rehearsed, one could not doubt -- a sort of belief through self-hypnosis, I suppose: a mind chained to the same words over and over.
Maybe if you shut down that tape loop in your head, you could hear something different, and your faith of love and redemption would not fill you with sour bile.
But probably not. Good luck with your demons.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Dredge, posted 12-18-2023 6:17 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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