Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 48 (9214 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: Cifa.ac
Post Volume: Total: 920,068 Year: 390/6,935 Month: 390/275 Week: 107/159 Day: 18/31 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Atheists: Time to Come Out of the Closet!
Dredge
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 163 of 174 (914051)
12-21-2023 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Tangle
12-20-2023 2:16 AM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Tangled writes:
By your definition, there are no Christians. All men are sincere.“For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard.” Romans 3,23
That's not my definition. I didn't say any Christian who's sinned is not a Christian - I said any so-called Christian who leads a life of crime (ie, a career criminal) is not a Christian.
You call yourself "a moral being", yet you repeatedly lie about what I've said.
“Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.”
Reciting a stupid, false, unbiblical Protestant doctrine doesn't help your cause.
Christ has not "freed us from the penalty for our sins". The Bible says we (Christians included) will all be judged according to our deeds:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body" (2Cor 5:10).
Any Christian who understands this would fear God and therefore not become a career criminal or a serial killer.
Actually, you've changed what your assertion, I know I'm not supposed to notice, sorry.
You claimed that my assertion was that "only atheists can be criminal". That's not the same as what I actually said, which is that "All career criminals and serial killers are atheists."
As usual, you've lied about what I said.
For starters, a "criminal" is not necessarily and a "career criminal" ... a criminal is someone who commits a crime, whereas a "career criminal" - according to the Collins English dictionary- is "a person who earns his or her income through criminal activities".
So still wrong, by far the majority of criminals are believers who have simply “strayed from the path” yet can still be saved.
Yet another strawman. I didn't assert anything about "criminals" - I referred to "career criminals". And I never said anything about being "saved".
Furthermore, a lot of your jailhouse "Christians" never "strayed from the path" bcoz they were never on the "path" in the first place - they identify as "Christian" only for baptismal or cultural reasons. A lot of your jailhouse "Christians" would actually be agnostic or even atheist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Tangle, posted 12-20-2023 2:16 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by AZPaul3, posted 12-22-2023 2:44 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 165 by Tangle, posted 12-22-2023 6:49 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 166 by Percy, posted 12-22-2023 8:38 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 167 of 174 (914080)
12-22-2023 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Percy
12-20-2023 9:27 AM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Percy writes:
Your whole post is dripping with disingenuousness. Everyone's a god-fearing Catholic who says they are until they do something you don't like, and then they're not.
Unfortunately, not all Cathloics are God-fearing - some of them don't even believe in God or practise the Catholic faith. A lot of "Catholics" identify as such simply bcoz they were baptised Catholic as infants.
And how many Catholics actually describe their relationship with God as God-fearing anyway? Online, "God-fearing" is described as not actual fear of the Lord but as "awe or profound respect," or that "to fear God is to be in awe of his power and knowledge."
The Bible suggests there's more to it than that:
"work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12);
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matt 10:28);
"And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile (1Peter 1:17).
I think most Catholics would use words like love, compassion, faith, omnipotence, eternal and infinite when describing how they view God, not fear.
Any Catholic who doesn't genuinely fear the One who has the power to send them to hell for eternity is a fool.
Do you think a "Catholic" Italian Mafioso fears God? Of course not - they don't even believe in God - they're atheists masquerading as Catholics.
One of the fundamental principles of Catholicism is that we all sin, that we're all guilty of sin, especially the original sin. There's nothing in Catholicism saying that sin makes one a non-Catholic.
I agree. However, a Catholic who leads a life of unrepentant crime (a career criminal) is a "Catholic" in name only.
Catholics are about 15% of the prison population in the US. Plenty of Catholics commit crimes, some of the most heinous by priests, maybe even the one who offers you the Eucharist on Sunday. Even high priests have been convicted of crimes, like papal advisor Cardinal Angelo Beccie a few days ago. 252 priests have been criminally convicted of child sex abuse, many times more have settled with their victims out of court, and who knows how many more are hiding within the church, transferred around to hide their transgressions. Your entire church hierarchy seems to be rife with crime. How can you continue to be associated with what can be legitimately described as an outlaw church?
Catholics are sinners, just like everyone else. The crime rate amongst Catholics is no worse than in the wider community.
Perhaps as a Christmas gift to EvC, but also to yourself, you could stop repeating self-evidently false claims.
Firstly, all my posts should be thought of as gifts.
Secondly, I admit I did err in asserting that only atheists become career criminals or serial killers. I wish to retract that statement and replace it with this: Only atheists and agnostics become career criminals or serial killers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Percy, posted 12-20-2023 9:27 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Percy, posted 12-23-2023 9:23 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 107 days)
Posts: 2855
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 171 of 174 (914087)
12-23-2023 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Percy
12-22-2023 8:38 AM


Re: Pope On A Rope
Percy writes:
So in your world being a career criminal is a different class of sin, one that casts them out from the community of Christians.
In 1Cor 5:9-13, Paul instructs the Church to judge unrepentant sinners and expel them from the Christian community if necessary (obviously, the sin(s) in question would have to be very serious).
In the Catholic Church, this recourse is called Excommunication - a Catholic is officially expelled from the Church and is no longer considered a Catholic.
"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But rather I wrote[f] to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”" (1Cor 5:9-13)
Where in the Bible does it talk about different classes of sin?
1John 5:16-17 says there are sins that are "deadly" and sins that are "not deadly".
In Catholicism, "deadly" sins are called Mortal sins; sins that are "not deadly" are called Venial sins.
"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a deadly sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not deadly. There is sin which is deadly; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not deadly." (1John 5:16-17)
You're calling Biblical verse Romans 3:23-25 unbiblical?
Hardly. What is your interpretation of that passage? Sounds to me like you've misunderstood it.
Gee, dueling Bible verses. Who ever would have guessed that could ever happen? Romans 3:23-25 or 2 Corinthians 5:10? Decisions, decisions.
Protestant theology produces lots of "dueling" (sic) verses (ie, verses that are contradictory) - that's what crap theology does; it makes a mess of the Scriptures. Give an idiot the Bible to read and the result will be idiot theology.
If you see a conflict between Romans 3:23-25 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, that means you've misinterpreted them.
Scripture cannot contradict Scripture (oh, unless you're a Protestant).
What you originally said about all career criminals and serial killers being atheists was wrong. Somehow you've decided in your own unCatholic mind that there are some types of sins that remove you from Christianity.
Besides the Excommunication verse (1Cor 5:9-13) mentioned above, there's Matt 7:21-23, where Jesus disowns certain Christians due to their sins.
In Rev 2, Jesus threatens to "remove" the church at Ephesus due to its sinful works.
And then there's John 2:3-6, which says a Christian who doesn't keep God's commandments doesn't "know" Christ, is a "liar" and "the truth is not in him" - in other words, he's not a Christian.
You're going against your own religion
Quick - go tell the Pope!! LOL.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Percy, posted 12-22-2023 8:38 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2023 3:14 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 174 by Percy, posted 12-24-2023 7:03 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025