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Author | Topic: Morality without God is impossible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
ICANT writes: What else do you want me to say? This is a big claim … you could start by telling us about a conversation you had. What was said and what resulted? Do you actually speak? Could others listen to both sides of the conversation? How do you know that this is god? What can you tell us that would help us believe you? Can you talk to him now and type his reply?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Percy Member Posts: 22929 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
ICANT in Message 444 writes: Percy writes: Actually, Tangle is writing to you and you are reading his words. Obviously that's not what you mean Why not don't you get science information that way. "Why not don't"? Care to try again? Or you can just forget it - this isn't a science thread.
Percy writes: So what do you mean 'you hear Him'? Why is this such a difficult question for you to answer? Its not a problem I hear Him just as good as I hear you. Since you don't hear me at all, then you don't hear Him at all, either.
If I have a problem I can't solve I tell Him I need help and the Holy Spirit gives me the answer. And He does that how? How do you know it's even a He? Leprechauns bless! --Percy Edited by Percy, : Tangle => me
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Percy Member Posts: 22929 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
ICANT in Message 448 writes: So when the Holy Spirit talks to me he sends the signals to my brain or speaks to me through His Word. And you know it's the Holy Spirit how? Leprechauns bless! --Percy
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kjsimons Member Posts: 829 From: Orlando,FL Joined: |
Your hearing loss might explain the voices you hear. Auditory hallucinations are common in people with hearing loss.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
So either hallucinations or wishful thinking. If there are no means by which it can be measured, it did not happen. If something happens it must leave some sort of evidence. Hitchens's Razor quoted below in my signature is appropriate here.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
I have hearing loss. I imagine some of it might be similar to phantom limbs if amputees.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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kjsimons Member Posts: 829 From: Orlando,FL Joined: |
Yeah, I've read up on it via some books and it appears that your brain abhors a vacuum and so it fills it in for you via auditory hallucinations in cases of hearing loss. The brain is an interesting thing.
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Omnivorous Member (Idle past 123 days) Posts: 4001 From: Adirondackia Joined:
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Given free rein, my brain turns almost every ambient noise into music: factory, crowded room, big ac plus traffic -- anything, really. Similarly, random folds in bedding, curtains, clothing, etc., become faces.
Pereidolia, visual and auditory, apophenia's powerful sense of significant connection between random things (the heart of conspiracies?), all lifelong events for me. I have to actively choose to let it happen now, but in a cavernous old school truck factory 50 years ago, the score was symphonic; as a kid, the faces in my dark bedroom were nightmarish. These are among the reasons I am deeply skeptical of visions and revelations. I know the brain--my brain--is wired for them. I know what they are."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads." Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
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Percy Member Posts: 22929 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.2
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When I was around 11 to 13 I had a fan in my room in the summer, and from it's drone beautiful top-40 music would emerge, the same stuff I listened to on the radio. Every voice, every word, every beat, every tambourine tingle, every guitar note, every drum brush, it was all there. It felt so real. The Happenings, the Four Seasons, the Beach Boys, they were all there. I can still do it as an adult, but I have to work at it.
If during that period I had instead been listening to church sermons and reading the Bible then likely the word of God would have emerged from that fan. Actually, now that I think of it I'm surprised that it didn't because I did listen to Garner Ted Armstrong, telling you the plain truth about today's world events and The World Tomorrow. One of his big things in 1965 and 1966 was the Bible prophecy that Israel would return to Jerusalem and that in The World Tomorrow it would happen. Then there was the 1967 war and Israel *did* return to Jerusalem, but by that time I had moved on to other things. --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
ICANT writes:
So let's hear more about these conversations then. I am not shy and never have been.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Seems like our man doesn't want to tell us about his conversations with god after all. Despite claiming not to be shy.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. |
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RenaissanceMan Junior Member Posts: 30 From: Anaheim Joined: |
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. So you rely on Tim Minchin, beat poet, for your "science"? “If we need an atheist for a debate, we go to the philosophy department. The physics department isn’t much use.” - –Robert Griffiths, winner of the Heinemann Prize in mathematical physics. “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die…..” – Max Planck Never was this truer than in the subject of Darwinism. The Insuperable Statistics of Naturalistic Polypeptide Synthesis Titin is the largest protein in the human body. It consists of 38,138 amino acid residues in a precise sequence. The first naturalistic synthesis, whether stepwise or in one single, continuous process, consisted of “selecting” 1 out of 20 amino acids which make up humans, 38,138 times in succession, or 1/20 to the 38,138th power. This is equal to 1 in 10 to the 49,618th power. The pretense of claiming that “sections” of any protein were “assembled” overlooks the unassailable fact that any “section,” however small, had to be assembled under the same statistical constraints. Whether one does the computations in one step or 1,000 steps, the figures are beyond dispute. They get a great deal worse, in fact. Only Levorotary (left-handed) amino acids were used, not Dextrorotary (right-handed) amino acids, so 1 in 10 to the 49,618th power has to be multiplied by 1/2 to the 38,138th power or 1 in 10 to the 11,480th power. One more time for all consecutive peptide bonds, which are equally probable as the random formation of non-peptide bonds, thus 1/2 to the 38,138th power. The product of these three essential elements of original Titin synthesis is 1 chance in 10 to the 72,578th power (not counting whatever calculation is appropriate for the precise folding of the chain). Finally, “selection,” that magic word Darwin so popularized, demands that at each successive step, there must be some advantage conferred, otherwise the random mutation cannot prevail and multiply. No one has ever proposed any original synthesis with breakdowns of thousands of intermediaries and each of their “selective” advantages. Titin is only one of more than 20,000 polypeptides (proteins and enzymes) in the human body. Pseudoscientific sophisticates claim that large proteins were “assembled” from smaller component blocks. Sorry, that does not obviate the requisite statistics, it attempts to wave them away. Every smaller component still was the result of arbitrary picking of the correct amino acid out of 20 different possibilities, in L form, with a peptide bond, and precise folding. As a means of comparing a number as enormous as 20 to the 38,138th power, consider that the number of fundamental particles in the universe is approximately 10 to the 80th. In 1943, the distinguished French mathematician Émile Borel stated that “events with a sufficiently small probability never occur” (Institute of Mathematical Statistics). Dr. Borel chose a fairly safe number, 10 to the minus 50. Ten to the 50th marbles1 cm in diameter would fill 923,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 spheres the size of earth. This is 923,400 billion billion. Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. – Thomas Edison
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Taq Member Posts: 10293 Joined: Member Rating: 7.4 |
ChemEngineer writes: Titin is the largest protein in the human body. It consists of 38,138 amino acid residues in a precise sequence. The first naturalistic synthesis, whether stepwise or in one single, continuous process, consisted of “selecting” 1 out of 20 amino acids which make up humans, 38,138 times in succession, Google searches are free. Why don't you use them?
quote: Titin evolved WELL after the first life appeared on Earth as shown by the absence of titin in any prokaryotic genome. If you think titin had to occur through abiogenesis then you don't understand abiogenesis, evolution, or even basic biology. Titin evolved by many duplications of a handful of sequences, not one codon at a time. There is also massive variation in titin sequences across life, demonstrating that there are many, many different protein sequences that will perform this function. Why don't you join us here in the real world?
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Admin Director Posts: 13107 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Most of your post is a cut-n-paste from The Evolution Fraud or some similar webpage.
It is the policy of EvC Forum that posts be original contributions. The goal is for discussions to avoid become mere cut-n-pastes. Edited by Admin, : Correct the URL.
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RenaissanceMan Junior Member Posts: 30 From: Anaheim Joined: |
Taq: Titin evolved WELL after the first life appeared on Earth as shown by the absence of titin in any prokaryotic genome. If you think titin had to occur through abiogenesis then you don't understand abiogenesis, evolution, or even basic biology.
__________________________________-- ChemEngineerMBA: YOU said "occur through abiogenesis," I did not. Atheists, Darwinists and other Leftists have the nasty habit of putting your words in the mouths of those who disagree with you and then condemning them/us for the words YOU dishonestly put into our mouths. I said "Original synthesis." As in the first human who had titin in their muscles. Try to see the difference between "abiogenesis," your term, and "original synthesis." I know, it's hard.----------------------------------- Titin evolved by many duplications of a handful of sequences, not one codon at a time. ________________________- ChemEngineerMBA: "handful of sequences." Does that come terribly close to 10 to the 79,000 in number of possible sequences? I'll answer that question. "No, it does not. Trillions of trillions is effectively zero compared to 10 to the 79,000. ______________________________ There is also massive variation in titin sequences across life, demonstrating that there are many, many different protein sequences that will perform this function. Why don't you join us here in the real world? _____________________________________ ChemEngineerMBA: The "real world" as claimed by Richard Dawkins and his hateful ilk? Sorry but that is not "real." It is angry make-believe. Ten to the minus 50 is "impossible." You're trying to compensate for that with a "handful." There is nothing remotely "real world" about your hand-waving. I have read several of Dawkins' books and critiqued them, and sent my critiques to his publisher. The best Dawkins could do was call me names and ignore my valid critiques. Same thing occurred with Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan. Many thousands of scientists around the world have published papers and books refuting your Darwinian religion. That would not be remotely possible if it were "real world" as you claim.
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