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Author
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Topic: The Biden Presidency
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
You looked friendly and amiable, and like you belonged after the nod to the gentleman as he passed. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 465 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 3:26 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.3
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Message 467 of 480 (914708)
01-29-2024 10:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 466 by Percy
01-29-2024 7:54 PM
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
That gentleman was Governor Walz of Minnesota.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 466 by Percy, posted 01-29-2024 7:54 PM | | Percy has not replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8655 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 6.7
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Message 468 of 480 (914709)
01-29-2024 10:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 462 by Theodoric
01-26-2024 5:24 PM
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
So you got to see old Joe, watch and listen to him, real-time live? Nice beard. If you care to share, Oh Bearded One, what are your impressions of this guy? Can he do another term?
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 462 by Theodoric, posted 01-26-2024 5:24 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.3
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Message 469 of 480 (914710)
01-29-2024 10:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 468 by AZPaul3
01-29-2024 10:36 PM
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
He is an old man. He is physically slow, but seemed sharp. What other choice do we have? Is he my first choice? No. Then again my first choice would not be elected. You dance with the one that brung ya. Let's get him elected and then deal with down the road.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 468 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2024 10:36 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 470 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2024 11:38 PM | | Theodoric has not replied | | | Message 471 by Percy, posted 01-30-2024 7:25 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8655 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 6.7
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Message 470 of 480 (914711)
01-29-2024 11:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 469 by Theodoric
01-29-2024 10:40 PM
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
People have to remember that this president is supported by entire scads of advisors. As I read it Joe Biden is not alone in his office the way Trump was. He appears to have a strong staff and his decisions are not made with limited input. And his input comes from the whole of the Democratic Party. Trump was advised by only his closest staff unless they disagreed with him then his only advice came from himself. And he is a proven liar, thief, rapist, insurrectionist who, quite openly, says that he will lead a revolution if defied. No we don't have any choice.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 469 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 10:40 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 471 of 480 (914712)
01-30-2024 7:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 469 by Theodoric
01-29-2024 10:40 PM
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
Theodoric writes: He is an old man. He is physically slow,... My tennis group has gotten older through the years, and two of us are 82 now. One is still spry, the other has been slowed by double knee replacement, but both still hit a mean ball. Mentally, both are very sharp. Often they are placing the ball in the exact right spot. At her 95th birthday party my grandmother played piano with the band. Some people are old at a certain age, some aren't. How physically old is Biden? He exited the room very slowly, in stark contrast to running onto the stage after winning the 2020 election. Has he slowed that much, or does it just take a few steps for the joints to loosen up after standing stationary at a podium for a while? I don't know. But what's important in a president is his mind. I don't think he's displayed much of his mind publicly during his presidency, though he seems to be gradually emerging from hibernation during this election year. As far as I can tell he's the same guy we elected nearly four years ago, just physically older and slower. But age could strike him down at any time and then it will be President Kamala Harris. In my view she's been a disappointment, as has Joe. But when considering how a Democratic win in September might play out for the country over the following four years, it isn't a question of whether Biden or Harris would be a good president. The question is whether they'd be a better president than Trump, and of that there can be no doubt. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 469 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 10:40 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 472 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-30-2024 10:58 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.1
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Message 472 of 480 (914715)
01-30-2024 10:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 471 by Percy
01-30-2024 7:25 AM
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
But when considering how a Democratic win in September might play out for the country over the following four years, it isn't a question of whether Biden or Harris would be a good president. Well, if they win in September, that should shut up everyone who thinks Biden is slow.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 471 by Percy, posted 01-30-2024 7:25 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 473 by xongsmith, posted 01-30-2024 7:32 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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xongsmith
Member Posts: 2620 From: massachusetts US Joined: 01-01-2009
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Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
Tanypteryx writes: Well, if they win in September, that should shut up everyone who thinks Biden is slow. LOL!!
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 472 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-30-2024 10:58 AM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 474 of 480 (920873)
12-03-2024 10:02 AM
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I think the pardoning of his son Hunter Biden is the biggest mistake of the Biden presidency. Yes, average citizens are rarely charged with the same crimes as Hunter Biden for the same violations (lying on a gun application form, non-payment of taxes that were subsequently paid), and especially not when known to be suffering under addiction. Yes, what's been done to Hunter Biden is obviously unfair. But setting an example by refraining from taking advantage of power and privilege is even more important. It makes Biden no better than Trump, who will claim he's doing no more than his predecessor when he pardons the January 6th insurrectionists and any of his friends and family still in need of same. Rudy Giuliani comes to mind. --Percy
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 475 by Rahvin, posted 12-03-2024 11:48 AM | | Percy has replied | | | Message 477 by Taq, posted 12-04-2024 11:08 AM | | Percy has not replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4069 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 10.0
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Message 475 of 480 (920879)
12-03-2024 11:48 AM
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Reply to: Message 474 by Percy
12-03-2024 10:02 AM
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Ill disagree. Hunter was explicitly targeted for political reasons. The usual punishment for what he actually did is a plea deal. There was a plea deal, and it was derailed...by political opponents. The power of the pardon is explicitly for addressing miscarriages of justice, which this absolutely 100% was. He should have had consequences, the plea deal should have happened, but the pardon power is all or nothing. Biden's mistake was promising not to pardon him. Meanwhile, Trump pardoned people of far worse crimes, and is now appointing the criminals he had to pardon to political and powerful positions. Biden is not showing that he's "the same" unless you sane-wash Trump's actions to the degree that our media loves to. Biden's pardon was appropriate to address an actuall miscarriage of justice. Trump's pardons are simple "get out of jail free" cards to let his cronies escape consequences when their convictions were utterly fair and took special care to ensure no political bias. They are not the same. Noit at all.
-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) -->Nihil supernum --> -->
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 474 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 10:02 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 476 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 5:59 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 476 of 480 (920880)
12-03-2024 5:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 475 by Rahvin
12-03-2024 11:48 AM
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I'm going to do both.
Hunter was explicitly targeted for political reasons. The usual punishment for what he actually did is a plea deal. There was a plea deal, and it was derailed...by political opponents. I agree. David Weiss, appointed in 2018 while Trump was still president to oversee the inquiry, was hostile toward Hunter Biden and pursued him relentlessly across all fronts. All he could find was a false answer on a firearm application, and non-payment of taxes, offenses committed while Hunter was a confirmed addict and which aren't normally pursued criminally. But the reason the plea deal fell apart are complex, see Inside the Collapse of Hunter Biden’s Plea Deal - The New York Times. After Weiss decided not to pursue prosecution, two IRS agents came forward and accused the Justice Department of interfering with their investigation, but the very next paragraph begins this way, "Now, the I.R.S. agents and their Republican allies..." Why would I.R.S. agents, who'd you'd hope would be neutral politically about tax issues, have Republican allies? That doesn't sound anything close to unbiased. I.R.S. agents with Republican allies sound like the kind of agents who would exploit political vulnerabilities, like those of a president of the opposite party whose son was in legal hot water. To me it seems very clear that Hunter Biden is the victim here, however sketchy his attempts to take financial advantage of being the president's son.
The power of the pardon is explicitly for addressing miscarriages of justice, which this absolutely 100% was. He should have had consequences, the plea deal should have happened, but the pardon power is all or nothing. Half the country voted for Trump, and so it is likely that a very sizable portion of the country doesn't see Hunter Biden's treatment as a miscarriage of justice. The pardon power isn't all or nothing. Pardons can be very specific in their application.
Biden's mistake was promising not to pardon him. Agreed.
Meanwhile, Trump pardoned people of far worse crimes, and is now appointing the criminals he had to pardon to political and powerful positions. Are you sure about that? I could only find one of possible significance, Charles Kushner, the father of Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Trump has selected him to serve as ambassador to France.
Biden is not showing that he's "the same" unless you sane-wash Trump's actions to the degree that our media loves to. To quote Politico, "Joe Biden’s broad reprieve for his son gives the president-elect new rationale for even more expansive pardons than those he issued in his first term."
Biden's pardon was appropriate to address an actual miscarriage of justice. Trump's pardons are simple "get out of jail free" cards to let his cronies escape consequences when their convictions were utterly fair and took special care to ensure no political bias. They are not the same. Not at all. What proportion of the country sees it as a miscarriage of justice, or sees the legal charges against Trump's people as political witch hunts? All that being said, shortly after my earlier post I changed my mind and posted this comment to the Washington Post:
Percy:
While Hunter Biden's pardon is unprecedented, so is Trump's demonstrated penchant for vengeance. That Hunter Biden was charged with the crimes he was, when no normal citizen would be, is just more evidence of this. So Joe Biden had to consider the strong possibility that once in office Trump would drive his Justice Department to charge Hunter Biden with additional serious crimes and that the persecution would just never end. Joe Biden's judgment is not at fault here. He sized up the dangers of a Trump presidency to his family pretty accurately.
--Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 475 by Rahvin, posted 12-03-2024 11:48 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 478 by Rahvin, posted 12-05-2024 12:32 PM | | Percy has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10304 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 7.3
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Message 477 of 480 (920882)
12-04-2024 11:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 474 by Percy
12-03-2024 10:02 AM
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Percy writes: But setting an example by refraining from taking advantage of power and privilege is even more important. It makes Biden no better than Trump, who will claim he's doing no more than his predecessor when he pardons the January 6th insurrectionists and any of his friends and family still in need of same. Rudy Giuliani comes to mind. Hell will freeze over before Republicans are convinced to change their ways because of an example set by a Democrat. It isn't the best look for Biden, but personally, I could care less. The whole situation turned into a political farce, so I have no problem with the pardon.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 474 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 10:02 AM | | Percy has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 479 by Phat, posted 12-07-2024 7:50 AM | | Taq has not replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4069 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 10.0
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Message 478 of 480 (920897)
12-05-2024 12:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 476 by Percy
12-03-2024 5:59 PM
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Half the country voted for Trump, and so it is likely that a very sizable portion of the country doesn't see Hunter Biden's treatment as a miscarriage of justice.
Sure, but I'm past considering the opinions of Trump voters. At this point they're either stupid or evil or *both.* I just don't care what they think any more, unless they're ready to change and be better.
The pardon power isn't all or nothing. Pardons can be very specific in their application.
That's not what I meant. The pardon power cannot replace one punishment with another. It can target specific charges, that is all. Biden could have pardoned some specific charges and left others alone, but that wouldnt have addressed some of the issues.
Are you sure about that? I could only find one of possible significance, Charles Kushner, the father of Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Trump has selected him to serve as ambassador to France.
That might be the only one with a nomination so far. He issued plenty of other wildly inappropriate pardons.
To quote Politico, "Joe Biden’s broad reprieve for his son gives the president-elect new rationale for even more expansive pardons than those he issued in his first term."
No it doesn't. Trump already doesnt care about what's proper. He already inappropriately pardoned a bunch of people in his first term. Biden's actions weren't going to have an actual effect on Trump's pardon power no matter what. Im sure Trump et al will use Biden's pardon as a rhetorical device, but Trump announced intent to do more inappropriate pardons (like the Jan 6-ers) long before. This is more media sane-washing and pretending that the Dems need to be flawless while Trump can be lawless. To use a biblical reference, they are concerned about the splinter in their brother's eye while they ignore the plank in their own.
What proportion of the country sees it as a miscarriage of justice, or sees the legal charges against Trump's people as political witch hunts?
One of these groups bases their opinions on facts. The other bases their opinion on feelings and the word of Herr Fuhrer. They are not the same, and Im not concerned with the feelings of Nazis and Nazi-apologists. Fascism is a stupid movement for people making stupid decisions who should feel bad for falling for the lies and hate. Edited by Rahvin, : Wrong "they're"
-->“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) -->Nihil supernum --> -->
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 476 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 5:59 PM | | Percy has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.4
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Message 479 of 480 (920919)
12-07-2024 7:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 477 by Taq
12-04-2024 11:08 AM
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Speaking Of Odds
One of my conservative friends, an extreme Pro Trump guy, claims that Biden pardoned his son to (also) protect himself. The friend claims that there is dirt on Biden connected with Hunters business dealings in Ukraine. Where he gets this stuff I don't know. If there is any truth to it, will it still come out eventually or will it now die...the same way that Trumps crap is now dying? Is it Russian Propaganda? Is it MAGA-Watt unsupported assertions? Should I care? Im not out to "get" Biden as many MAGAts are. Lets let old Joe go gracefully out to pasture, able to enjoy his son at home now hopefully recovering from addiction and taking care of his parents.  So what are the odds that Biden is/was actually guilty of anything approaching money laundering? At this point who cares. What I *will* do is offer odds that Trump may eventually pardon himself before he retires. 3:1 that he will. Is that legal, by the way?
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--PercyGod alone is God *but* God is not alone~Ellis Potter We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
Critics would of course say that "God" is a product of human imagination...but then again God may well declare that all of creation is a product of His imagination! Its all in perspective of the the observer.~Phat
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 477 by Taq, posted 12-04-2024 11:08 AM | | Taq has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 480 by Percy, posted 12-07-2024 9:17 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 480 of 480 (920925)
12-07-2024 9:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 479 by Phat
12-07-2024 7:50 AM
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Re: Speaking Of Odds
Phat writes in Message 479: One of my conservative friends, an extreme Pro Trump guy, claims that Biden pardoned his son to (also) protect himself. The friend claims that there is dirt on Biden connected with Hunters business dealings in Ukraine. Where he gets this stuff I don't know. He probably gets it from the same sorts of places that told you the dollar is dying (it's at or near an all time high relative to other currencies) and a BRICS currency will replace it (as if China and Russia are going to agree on a currency), places whose driving force is clicks, not facts. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 479 by Phat, posted 12-07-2024 7:50 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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