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Author | Topic: Who Owns the Standard Definition of Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
K.Rose Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 160 From: Michigan Joined: |
Please see Message 5!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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If descent with modification is the simple rule, how is this rule substantiated? What substantiated? Every farmer in forever knows this. You say you have seen evidence. You didn't understand it? It was not in the right format? What substantiated? Your kids almost, but not quite, look like you. Not every puppy in the liter is a clone. I think that 'descent with modification' is well substantiated. If you want to discuss how this 'modification' takes place then take a look first at meiosis of the germline cells then at mutation vectors. We can go from there. Also, realize that Evolution works on populations not individuals. You will want to understand the concept of a gene pool and allele frequency within that pool. You can't adequately discuss anything evolution without these concepts in place.
I have seen a great deal of supporting data for this Evolution process, all of it pictures and explanations, and none of it the type of hard, repeatable data demanded by the Scientific Method. You're looking at the wrong data or misinterpreting what you see or expect to see. Common with highly complex systems when a person's knowledge is limited and wrong. First understand that evolution is not a process but hundreds of processes in unison and in conflict, creating both life and death.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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Overwhelming preponderance of evidence" is what I hear quite often. And if there is such a preponderance then there must be at least one clear, demonstrative example that even the most ignorant of laymen can understand. Do you know of such an example? What are you talking about? The preponderance is formed by many thousands, millions, of data points. Chart populations over time. The changes in allele frequency is a major process in evolution. It is the conglomeration of the data that is overwhelming, not any single data point. If you want to see a single data point for evolution take a look in the mirror then get yourself a statistics class and study population dynamics. And study nested hierarchies. They are vital in understanding descent in evolution. What did you expect to see? New animals pop into existence? What are you looking for that would show you evolution?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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Genetically modified corn is still corn. But not the same species. You know there are different species of corn? We modify the genes of one species and make a whole new species of corn. That is directed evolution. Like selective breeding on the farm. When a gene change happens whether natural or artificial the allele frequency for the population has been changed to add the new variants. If those variants come over time to appear in larger portions of the population that population has evolved. Change in allele frequency. Evolution. Lots of different definitions for evolution. All of them correct.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8654 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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And if there is such a preponderance then there must be at least one clear, demonstrative example that even the most ignorant of laymen can understand. Why? Do you think you can comprehend the anomalous magnetic moment of the muon by looking at one scatter plot? It appears you do not comprehend the static single item of the scientific method. How can you hope to comprehend the complex interplay of thousands of different process like evolution by seeing one example? It's a dog. Big deal. Can you see the frequency charts for the dog population? Can you read the charts of the dog population to determine changes in the allele frequency? Can you see those charts spread over multiple dozens of generations? That is a clear demonstrative example of evolution. If you're expecting a single proof case easy on the mind without too much thought then you are in the wrong world.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Irrelevant. You do not know what a scientific theory is. If you did you would define it as asked.
Just a troll. What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 8.6
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K.Rose in Message 12 writes: We could conceivably define Evolution by agreeing on all of the things that Evolution is not, but it seems there should be a readily available concise definition. Physicists do not have a clear definition of "physics". Scientists do not have a clear definition of "science". Mathematicians do not have a clear definition of "mathematics". Artists do not have a clear definition of "art".Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.5
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K.Rose in Message 26 writes: If descent with modification is the simple rule, how is this rule substantiated? Has this process been observed and recorded? Can this process be re-created? Alternately, what data confirms this process? Are you serious? Reproduction, every single reproductive event is the verification. It has been observed for millennia that offspring do not exactly resemble their parents, like they would if they were exact clones. Every offspring carries mutations that did not occur in the parents. That's the descent with modification or the genetic part of evolution. And selection is the other aspect of the process that plays out on the tapestry of populations across time.
I have seen a great deal of supporting data for this Evolution process, all of it pictures and explanations, and none of it the type of hard, repeatable data demanded by the Scientific Method. Really? So you are saying, the pictures and explanations were NOT showing and describing and explaining the supporting evidence? What were the pictures and explanations for if not showing the supporting evidence?
Hard, repeatable data demanded by the scientific method You mean like mapping and comparing the genomes of tens of thousands of species, and often from multiple populations of a species, that kind of hard repeatable data? You mean like mapping the paleo-biogeographical history of this planet, that kind of hard repeatable data? You mean like cataloging all the endogenous retroviral insertion in all the genomes that are sequenced, that kind of hard repeatable data? I don't know about your scientific method, but our scientific method is chugging along just fine on that data. And by the way, these huge datasets generated by rapidly advancing genome sequencing technology are being combed for hidden patterns are wonderful testing grounds for AI systems that are good at looking for interesting patterns. ABE: It occurred to me that maybe by "hard repeatable data" you meant something like fossils, going and finding the same type of fossils from the same rock layers? Or maybe you meant you wanted the actual fossils instead of pictures and descriptions? Edited by Tanypteryx, . Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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Percy Member Posts: 22934 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.8
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K.Rose writes: I have seen a great deal of supporting data for this Evolution process, all of it pictures and explanations, and none of it the type of hard, repeatable data demanded by the Scientific Method. Let's have a look. Could you present some of it here? --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Probably about the same time he tells us how he defines scientific theory
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.1
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Evidently you are incapable of reading with comprehension. Le's try again. Do you disagree with this?
quote:Hypothesis, theory, law - Google Docs What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.5 |
33 writes: What did you expect to see? New animals pop into existence? Yep, that's exactly what he expects to see.
K.Rose in Message 19 writes: For example: The mutation into a superior, more complex, or wholly different life form that manages to exist and procreate and evolve further. The problem here is, no matter how many times and how many ways we try to correct his basic misunderstanding of evolution, he will continue to think evolution is an organism giving birth to a "wholly different lifeform."Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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K.Rose Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 160 From: Michigan Joined: |
Here are some:
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K.Rose Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 160 From: Michigan Joined: |
Here are some:
http//stonesnbones.blogspot.com/2009/03/emergence-of-new-species.htmlhttps//evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03 https//web.neomed.edu/web/anatomy/Thewissen/whale_origins/index.html http//www-personal.umich.edu/~gingeric/PDGwhales/Whales.htm https//<link removed>
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K.Rose Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 160 From: Michigan Joined: |
Here are some:
Stones and Bones: Emergence of New SpeciesThe evolution of whales - Understanding Evolution Whale Origins Philip D. Gingerich Edited by Admin, : Fixed links.
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