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Author Topic:   Who Owns the Standard Definition of Evolution
Percy
Member
Posts: 22682
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 76 of 698 (914980)
02-08-2024 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 8:57 PM


K.Rose in Message 68 writes:
Can you provide an exceptional example of such a fossil sequence?
Horse evolution is one such example. The Evolution of the Horse. A Record and its Interpretation is an overview paper from 1926. Here's a diagram from the third page of the paper:
Naturally we've added immensely to our evidence and understanding of horse evolution in the past hundred years. Try this Google Scholar search for "horse evolution".
As someone else already said, all species are transitional, including us. Stasis isn't possible given changing environments and circumstances, mutations and genetic drift. Even the modern horseshoe crab, famous in the popular imagination for remaining unchanged over millions of years, has changed in small ways. While we only have a record of fossils and not of DNA, since mutations are inevitable the horseshoe crab genome could not possibly be identical to its ancestors from millions of years ago.
The completeness of any fossil record of evolutionary change over time for any life is subject to circumstances outside our control. What decays or erodes away or subducts or becomes buried deeply enough under sediment is gone to us forever. The fossil record for upland regions is very poor because they are regions of net erosion. Small or delicate species are much more likely to decay before preservation than large species. Most of the record of life's history on Earth either no longer exists or is inaccessible.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 8:57 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by K.Rose, posted 02-08-2024 5:03 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22682
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 77 of 698 (914981)
02-08-2024 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 9:07 PM


K.Rose in Message 69 writes:
A good part of this discussion string has been me pleading for a definition of Evolution.
More than several definitions were provided. You nonsensically complained that anything that can be explained in different ways has been nullified, as if you believe different people usually explain things the same way. You complained that there is no "official" definition of evolution, as if there are any "official" definitions in science. Even physics has no "official" definition:
Wikipedia:
Physics is the natural science of matter, involving the study of matter, its fundamental constituents, its motion and behavior through space and time, and the related entities of energy and force.
Britannica:
Physics, science that deals with the structure of matter and the interactions between the fundamental constituents of the observable universe.
I provided my own understanding of Evolution in Message 5 in that hopes that I might be corrected with the official definition of Evolution. Alas, I only managed to bring scorn upon myself.
Commenting on what you say you're experiencing as scorn, when you first began this discussion there was much presumption, which I then felt premature but have since been proven wrong, that where you are now is exactly where you were headed.
‚Äč
Evolution strikes me as remarkable in that it is so widely accepted yet so thoroughly unsupported by the Scientific Method. And the farther we delve into the details the more incoherent it becomes, the more debatable it becomes.
You'll have to describe your reasoning. You seem to be ignoring much of what's been said, pretending that mountains of evidence and research do not exist, and drawing conclusions unsupported by anything in this discussion.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 9:07 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22682
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 78 of 698 (914982)
02-08-2024 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 9:13 PM


K.Rose in Message 70 writes:
I'm very interested to see just a small sample of this mountain of evolutionary process empirical data. Keeping in mind that empirical data is derived from experimentation, or from direct observance & recording of the phenomenon.
I already gave you an answer in the very message you're replying to:
Percy in Message 66 writes:
For just a single counterexample, give this a click: Google Scholar search for "creating new species"
You seem intent on ignoring people while restating your opinions. If this isn't the kind of thing you're looking for then just say so and explain what you are looking for.
And no, direct observation of the fossil record doesn't count.
How so? How are fossil digs and fossil analysis not (to use your words) "direct observance & recording of the phenomenon."
What if they found fossils of bunnies back in the Permian, creating numerous difficulties for evolutionary theory? Would that count?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 9:13 PM K.Rose has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-08-2024 12:18 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4563
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 79 of 698 (914985)
02-08-2024 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by K.Rose
02-08-2024 6:02 AM


Please see Message 64

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by K.Rose, posted 02-08-2024 6:02 AM K.Rose has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4563
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 80 of 698 (914986)
02-08-2024 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Percy
02-08-2024 8:51 AM


Percy in Message 78 writes:
You seem intent on ignoring people while restating your opinions. If this isn't the kind of thing you're looking for then just say so and explain what you are looking for.
K.Rose in Message 70 writes:
And no, direct observation of the fossil record doesn't count.
How so? How are fossil digs and fossil analysis not (to use your words) "direct observance & recording of the phenomenon."
What if they found fossils of bunnies back in the Permian, creating numerous difficulties for evolutionary theory? Would that count?
So, what do you think? I'm predicting he's a student in a christian high school, so called science class. He gets extra credit for owning the evolutionists...

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Percy, posted 02-08-2024 8:51 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Theodoric, posted 02-08-2024 3:45 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 81 of 698 (914990)
02-08-2024 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 7:05 PM


Wrong. A hypothesis does not grow up to be a theory. A theory is an explanation of the scientific facts that testing a hypothesis shows. So you disagree with the definition of a scientific theory. That is a problem. For you. Discussion with you is a waste of time until you understand what a scientific theory is.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 7:05 PM K.Rose has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by ICANT, posted 02-08-2024 4:06 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 82 of 698 (914991)
02-08-2024 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by K.Rose
02-06-2024 9:20 PM


Look up Teosinte.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by K.Rose, posted 02-06-2024 9:20 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 83 of 698 (914992)
02-08-2024 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 7:28 PM


you are a transitional life form. Unless you are a clone.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 7:28 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 84 of 698 (914993)
02-08-2024 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 7:50 PM


The definition has been presented. You just don't like it. Are you a pastor? Or you getting credit at Bible College for trolling the "godless evolutionists"

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 7:50 PM K.Rose has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-08-2024 3:55 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 85 of 698 (914994)
02-08-2024 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 8:08 PM


Wrong. Evolution is tested ever day. Every time an organism procreates the TOE us more evidenced.
Do you have parent? If so, you are evidence for evolution.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 8:08 PM K.Rose has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ICANT, posted 02-08-2024 3:49 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 86 of 698 (914995)
02-08-2024 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by K.Rose
02-07-2024 8:12 PM


personal incredulity is not evidence, it is evidence of the lack of critical thinking. Can you name any biologists who agree with you? What is your background in science?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by K.Rose, posted 02-07-2024 8:12 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 137 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 87 of 698 (914996)
02-08-2024 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by K.Rose
02-06-2024 8:58 PM


Hi Rose,
Welcome to EvC.
K.Rose writes:
Can this process be re-created?
It can not be repeated as it never happened.
If it happened once is would still be available in all stages of evolution.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by K.Rose, posted 02-06-2024 8:58 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9345
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 88 of 698 (914997)
02-08-2024 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Tanypteryx
02-08-2024 12:18 PM


Lol. Just posted that. Or a Pastor looking to affirm his hates and biases.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-08-2024 12:18 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 137 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 89 of 698 (914998)
02-08-2024 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Theodoric
02-08-2024 3:35 PM


Hi Theo,
Theodoric writes:
Do you have parent? If so, you are evidence for evolution.
One parent is not enough it takes 2 parents to reproduce a child.
The only thing K.Rose proves is that the parents were capable of reproducing a human being in their image and likeness.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Theodoric, posted 02-08-2024 3:35 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Theodoric, posted 02-08-2024 9:33 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4563
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 90 of 698 (914999)
02-08-2024 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Theodoric
02-08-2024 3:32 PM


I'm kind of disappointed he hasn't brought up probabilities of proteins or something happening...

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Theodoric, posted 02-08-2024 3:32 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Theodoric, posted 02-08-2024 4:03 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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