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Author Topic:   Forum: Christian Ideology
Mr. Bound
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 56 (91457)
03-09-2004 6:55 PM


I request a forum be made on the subject of Christian ideology. In this forum things would be discussed like: the link of Christianity to such moral horrors as the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, medieval witchburning, the current situation in Ireland, denying real scientific knowledge to schoolchildren in certain parts of the world, and the war in Iraq.
The Christian ideology is central to the Creation vs Evolution controversy. There would be no big controversy if it weren't for fundamentalism. I would post some limks to people completely biased towards my position but I don't see the point.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Buzsaw, posted 03-09-2004 10:30 PM Mr. Bound has not replied
 Message 3 by MrHambre, posted 03-09-2004 10:47 PM Mr. Bound has not replied
 Message 4 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-10-2004 12:21 AM Mr. Bound has not replied
 Message 5 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 2:06 AM Mr. Bound has not replied
 Message 16 by Quetzal, posted 03-10-2004 9:28 AM Mr. Bound has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 56 (91482)
03-09-2004 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mr. Bound
03-09-2004 6:55 PM


1. Most of what you mentioned as subjects aren't Christian fundamentals and don't reflect the teaching of the Christ of Christianity. Thus they are not even Christian.
2. Fundamentalism is a relative word which can apply to evolutionists, Christians, mechanics, pilots, anything. When I fly, I like fundie pilots who go by the fundamentals of their books on flying and fundie mechanics to keep them up. Fundamental Christians also go by the NT book -- no violence. So do the Jehadistic Muslims -- violence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-09-2004 6:55 PM Mr. Bound has not replied

Replies to this message:
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MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3 of 56 (91486)
03-09-2004 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mr. Bound
03-09-2004 6:55 PM


The Sincerest Form of Flattery
I like your style, Bound.
regards,
Esteban Nor Hambre

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-09-2004 6:55 PM Mr. Bound has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 4 of 56 (91495)
03-10-2004 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mr. Bound
03-09-2004 6:55 PM


I don't think you're going to get a new, specific forum
I was about to move this topic to the "Suggestions and Questions" forum. But, I don't think you have a chance at getting a seperate "Christian Ideology" forum.
Perhaps this topic belongs in the "Faith and Belief" forum, but I'm going to leave it at this location. I suggest you discuss Christion ideology in this topic, or find/start another topic.
Cheers,
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-09-2004 6:55 PM Mr. Bound has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 5 of 56 (91503)
03-10-2004 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mr. Bound
03-09-2004 6:55 PM


Christianity is not the cause of the controversy, it is just the dominant religion in the societies where the science comes from. If another religion were dominant, then the other relgion would oppose evolutinary theory. This would be true for all religions, except those religions which are centered around selfish genes, which see man as in a continual struggle for existence. etc.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-09-2004 6:55 PM Mr. Bound has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Mammuthus, posted 03-10-2004 4:00 AM Syamsu has not replied
 Message 41 by joshua221, posted 03-17-2004 11:06 PM Syamsu has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 6 of 56 (91509)
03-10-2004 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Syamsu
03-10-2004 2:06 AM


This is just a lawyer trick..Christianity is responsible for the escape of Janet Jackson's breast at the superbowl and the huge interest in this controversy. Christianity is responsible for the failure of Christians to appraise the jewelry on her nipple....you have no overall appraisal that does not say that Christianity is not responsible for the holocaust, the failure of scientists to study the existence of SPAM (the canned meat not email), and why people from Nganjuk are unable to post coherently at EvC. Don't bother posting any "textbooks" or "papers" since I am too lazy to read but will cling to my prejudices and repeat my accusations about your morality endlessly.
regards,
Mam "igorance is the key" muthus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 2:06 AM Syamsu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by MrHambre, posted 03-10-2004 6:12 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 7 of 56 (91513)
03-10-2004 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mammuthus
03-10-2004 4:00 AM


quote:
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
-Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46
Mammuthus, I have established that no respectable study of Christianity can be made without focusing on the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Antiabolitionists, and the Nazis. I think my quotes from Mein Kampf, my link to that abortion-clinic-sniper story, and my observation that a lot of incarcerated criminals wear crucifixes are enough to prove my point. No, I did not read the Bible, and that overview of the Bible was much too involved as well. I scanned the summary of the overview, but one can only do so much when there's laundry piling up. Therefore I think it's obvious that no evidence I've seen even comes close to refuting my claims. Your argument, as always, is drivel.
regards,
Esteban "None So Blind" Hambre
[This message has been edited by MrHambre, 03-10-2004, and you should go away.]
[This message has been edited by MrHambre, 03-10-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Mammuthus, posted 03-10-2004 4:00 AM Mammuthus has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 8 of 56 (91515)
03-10-2004 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by MrHambre
03-10-2004 6:12 AM


The last part of that sentence refers to "eternal nature" as the supposed almighty creator.
I'm glad you brought this up because now we can discuss Haeckels incredibly deep involvement with the Volkish movement again, as noted by historian Gasman. There are of course *many* more historians who see Darwinism as influencing intellectual climate of opinion to a large extent. Obviously making your little joke on an internetforum about it is ok, but of course you should not leat people to think that you are somehow making an argument about anything. You are just playing the dunce of course, talking like you do, I hope that's understood by everyone. I hope it's understood that no single historian would give you the time of day, you're just acting as a complete idiot, which maybe has some perverse entertainment value to some people.
http://www.helsinki.fi/~pjojala/Gasman.htm
"IFone surveys the origins of the Volkish movement in Germany during the three or four decades prior to the First World War it is apparent that Haeckel played an influential, significant, indeed a decisive role in its genesis and subsequent development. An impressive number of the most influential Volkish writers, propagandists, and spokesmen were influenced by or involved in some way with either Haeckel or his Monist followers. In the development of racism, racial eugenics, Germanic Christianity, nature worship, and anti-Semitism, Haeckel and the Monists were an important source and a major inspiration for many of the diverse streams of thought which came together later on under the banner of National Socialism. "
"One of the most influential authors in the field of racial anthropology and eugenics was the physician Ludwig Woltman (1871-1907), Who has been described as the 'most important representative of the Gobineau theory of the Nordic race' in Germany at the turn of the century! Woltmann studied under Haeckel and in 1900 submitted a manuscript, ‘Der politische Anthropologie,' to an essay contest in which Haeckel, Heinrich Ziegler, and another Monist, Professor J. Conrad, were the judges. The contest itself, which ultimately led to the publication of ten volumes of influential social Darwinist tracts, was sponsored by the industrialist, Alfred Krupp, and its theme was: What can we learn from the principles of Darwinism for application to inner political development and the laws of the state?'2 "
"Even closer than Woltmann to Haeckel's social theories was Otto Ammon (1842-1916), another leading social Darwinist and racial
anthropologist.7 Ammon was among the authors recommended for additional reading in the Weltrtsel,8and in three inf1uential books, Die naturliche Auslese beim Menschen (1893), Der Darwinismusgegen die Sozialdemokratie (1893) and Die Gesellschaftsordnung und ihre naturlichen Grundlagen (1895), Ammon very closely paralleled Haeckel's social Darwinism. For Ammon, predictably, the laws of nature were also the laws of society. Struggle for existence and the inequality of all men, he wrote, were permanent aspects of life. Bravery, cunning, competition were all parts of the eternal scheme of things and it would be foolish to wish them away. "
"In regard to the racial theory of the Germans as Aryans, one should take note of the famous colleague of Haeckel, Ernst Krause (pseudonym Carus Steme).18 Together with Haeckel, Krause edited the joumal Kosmos, the chief organ of the Darwinian movement in Germany in the 1870'S and in the 1880's. In addition, Krause had been the noted author of popular biographies of Erasmus and Charles Darwin. In these books he had attempted to demonstrate the continuity which he believed to exist between English and German Darwinism, and he became one of the most widely read popularizers of Darwinian ideas in Germany. But Krause was also at the same time an imposing figure in the Volkish movement. In the early 1890'S, and shortly before his death, he wrote two influential books in defense of Aryanism and Germanic ideology."
"In offering further observations on the Jewish question, Haeckel asserted that he considered anti-Semitism to be a 'national' and 'racial' problem rather than a religious one. And evoking the spectre of intrinsic Jewish cosmopolitanism, Haeckel contended that the Jews were alienated from German life and society and that the Germans therefore felt ill at ease among the Jews. In addition, the problem, he explained, was exacerbated by the fact that Germany was in the midst of a national renaissance. Since nationalism and not intemationalism was the prevailing political current not only in Germany but throughout all ofEurope, it was therefore to be expected that anti-Semitism would continue to grow and develop. "
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by MrHambre, posted 03-10-2004 6:12 AM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 03-10-2004 7:23 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 9 of 56 (91517)
03-10-2004 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Syamsu
03-10-2004 7:19 AM


Take it to the Darwinist Ideology thread, Syamsu.
This is for discussing the rape, pillage, murder and abuse commited under the Christian Ideology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 7:19 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 7:36 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 10 of 56 (91518)
03-10-2004 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Jack
03-10-2004 7:23 AM


You are lying, the thread is just another attempt by bigoted Darwinist fanatics to dismiss comprehensive historical research into how Darwinism influenced intellectual climate of opinion.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 03-10-2004 7:23 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Dr Jack, posted 03-10-2004 7:51 AM Syamsu has replied
 Message 13 by Mammuthus, posted 03-10-2004 8:24 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 11 of 56 (91520)
03-10-2004 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Syamsu
03-10-2004 7:36 AM


I'm merely askign that you restrain your crankhood to threads actually related to talking about it. Is that too difficult for you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 7:36 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 12 of 56 (91524)
03-10-2004 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Jack
03-10-2004 7:51 AM


I would stay out of it, if other people confronted these odious fanatics about their sick attitude towards the science of history, specially history related to the holocaust.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dr Jack, posted 03-10-2004 7:51 AM Dr Jack has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 13 of 56 (91525)
03-10-2004 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Syamsu
03-10-2004 7:36 AM


quote:
You are lying, the thread is just another attempt by bigoted Darwinist fanatics to dismiss comprehensive historical research into how Darwinism influenced intellectual climate of opinion.
...which you have never read yourself. You even lied and claimed that the last part of the sentence Mr. Hambre quoted from Mein Kampf said something it did not i.e. you are a revisionist. What is amazing about your revisionism is that one normally has to read the original to revise it..you just make up all sides of the argument as you go along.
If you want to know about eugnenics you can read Daniel Kevles In the Name of Eugenics, and the references contained within...but you don't want to know about eugenics. You don't actually want to know anything since you have made your mind up about how the world is no matter how much evidence contradicts the view you hope to maintain by staying isolated in Nganjuk and isolated in your brain by ignorance...but that is ok since you described yourself in your post to Mr. Hambre
quote:
You are just playing the dunce of course, talking like you do, I hope that's understood by everyone. I hope it's understood that no single historian would give you the time of day, you're just acting as a complete idiot, which maybe has some perverse entertainment value to some people.
...Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the most loony fundie of them all?
Now back on topic...how are you going to defend Christianity for its pervasive role in Nazi ideology? Christian symbolism and direct reference to Christianity pervade Mein Kampf. How can you ignore the influence of christian ideology on the holocaust? How do you explain away the quote Mr. Hambre posted? ...right back at you..I am sure a completely unresearched, halfwitted, and unintentionally humorous reply is on its way.
regards,
Mam "Who needs evidence? muthus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 7:36 AM Syamsu has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 24 by Mammuthus, posted 03-11-2004 2:56 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 14 of 56 (91527)
03-10-2004 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Syamsu
03-10-2004 8:13 AM


quote:
I would stay out of it, if other people confronted these odious fanatics about their sick attitude towards the science of history
Yeah those odious people who actually READ the history...what a stupid thing to do..actually knowing about things. Glad to see Syamsu escaped that trap.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 15 of 56 (91533)
03-10-2004 9:17 AM


This is slated to be a topic on CHRISTIAN IDEALOGY. Take the dog and pony show back where it originated. "The Great Darwinist Idealogical Conspiracy" is NOT going to take over every thread.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

Replies to this message:
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