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Author
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Topic: Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 196 of 563 (915418)
02-13-2024 3:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 180 by PaulK
02-13-2024 1:54 PM
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Who wrote the Gospels?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 1:54 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 201 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:26 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 197 of 563 (915419)
02-13-2024 3:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 191 by PaulK
02-13-2024 2:52 PM
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I have no idea what you are trying to ask.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 191 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 2:52 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 199 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:23 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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Message 198 of 563 (915420)
02-13-2024 3:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 194 by Tangle
02-13-2024 3:13 PM
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quote:
Last word on this because we both know what we mean. "More likely than not" implies prior knowledge, the actual outcome is uncertain but the probability is known.
No, it doesn’t have to be known or provable. It can be completely subjective.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 194 by Tangle, posted 02-13-2024 3:13 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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quote:
I have no idea what you are trying to ask.
I’ll make it simple for you. Do you mean that his given name has to be “Jesus” - that exact name - or do you allow latitude for the vagaries of transliteration?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 197 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:16 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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quote:
Then you either are not looking hard or have no interest in actually finding any.
I’ve no interest in paying to read arguments that are likely bad. (And if there are good arguments why wouldn’t there be some freely available?)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 195 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:14 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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quote:
Who wrote the Gospels?
Christians living in the latter half of the 1st Century CE. Your point?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 196 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:14 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 202 of 563 (915424)
02-13-2024 3:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 199 by PaulK
02-13-2024 3:23 PM
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No. His name could have been Ralph. My point is how do we decide someone was the basis of Jesus if he has none of the characteristics of Jesus. The point you are trying to make is petty and sophomoric, but then again people get that way when they think their beliefs are threatened.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 199 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:23 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 205 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:48 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 203 of 563 (915426)
02-13-2024 3:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 201 by PaulK
02-13-2024 3:26 PM
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So anonymous people? No sources? No idea if what is regarded as the Gospels are original or changed or manipulated through the years? Did these anonymous authors right anything else? Why should we trust anything in the Gospels if we have no idea who wrote them, and we can objectively show that parts of them are wrong?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 201 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:26 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 204 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:44 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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Who said we should trust the Gospels? I didn’t and I don’t. But that doesn’t mean that they are completely worthless as evidence. Can you make a case that they are complete fiction rather than heavily fictionalised history? Again, Christianity exists. The Gospels are early Christian’s accounts of the founding of their religion. Isn’t it likely that there is some truth in there? Why reject that idea out of hand?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:30 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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quote:
No. His name could have been Ralph. My point is how do we decide someone was the basis of Jesus if he has none of the characteristics of Jesus.
My answer is that he does have some of the characteristics of Jesus.
quote:
The point you are trying to make is petty and sophomoric, but then again people get that way when they think their beliefs are threatened.
I’m simply asking what answer you would accept as meaning that he was “called Jesus”. That you prefer insult to answering is rather telling.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 202 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:26 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 206 of 563 (915429)
02-13-2024 3:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 204 by PaulK
02-13-2024 3:44 PM
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yes they are completely worthless as evidence. There is nothing that corroborates them. We have no idea who wrote them. We only know an approximation of when. A source cannot be self verifying. There needs to be another source to corroborate before it can be considered as evidence. The Bible cannot be used as evidence for Jesus as that is the only original source for information on the Jesus dude.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 204 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:44 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 208 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:58 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 207 of 563 (915430)
02-13-2024 3:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 205 by PaulK
02-13-2024 3:48 PM
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Who us he? What are some of the characteristics? Was he a pacifist preacher or a revolutionary? Was he venerated at birth? Was he executed? If so how? Is only part if the story myth? Where do we draw the line?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 205 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:48 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 209 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:00 PM | | Theodoric has replied | | | Message 226 by ICANT, posted 02-13-2024 5:06 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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So no answer to my points then. Seriously if there are good arguments for a mythical Jesus why waste time with empty nay-saying?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:51 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.5
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Interesting that you still refuse to answer a simple question. Is the answer really that embarrassing to you? And if it is, that really says all we need to know bout your argument.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 207 by Theodoric, posted 02-13-2024 3:55 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 210 of 563 (915433)
02-13-2024 4:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 208 by PaulK
02-13-2024 3:58 PM
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What points? All I see are assertions. Care to make those points in a logical evidenced manner? You claim you have never heard a good argument for mythicism. I gave you sources. I can give you more, but we all know you will ignore them. Edited by Theodoric, .
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 3:58 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 213 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2024 4:14 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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