Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
One question for you, I CANT. Do you basically agree with Peter Kreeft in that God created the *possibility of evil* and that Lucifer actualized it, setting up the Tree of Knowledge and the whole Biblical Narrative?
That is a very good Question.
I have discussed the question and answer with many people.
The answer varies according to whether a person believes what they are told or if they believe what the Bible says
I have been told that God could not evil because He is too Good to create evil.
I have been told the devil fell from something and created evil.
I believe what I read in the Bible, so lets take a look and see what it says.
Paul writes:
In Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Paul said Jesus created all things.
John writes:
In Revelation 4:11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
John recorded that The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, in verse 10 said God/Lord created all things.
John writes:
In John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John believed Jesus created everything.
Paul writes:
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
συνίστημι is translated consist and means to band together.
Not only did He create all things, by Him all things exist.
That means He supplies all the dark energy, and dark matter that causes the universe to still exist. One day He will say enough already and this universe will melt with fervent heat which was prophesied over 2,000 years ago. I think science figured that out a few years back.
I wanted to tie this to my opening post to present that Jesus/God in the flesh created all things.
Some people want to believe "all things" means only all things they decide that He created.
I ask people what part of all things means just some things.
Now to the origin of evil.
Isaiah writes:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Pay attention to what was created and what was not created.
Isaiah is quoting what God said. I can find no reason that a prophet would make such a statement on his own.
God is light pure energy so light did not have to be created.
God created the darkness found at Genesis 1:2.
God makes peace.
God created evil. His own words not mine.
God said He did all these things, not some of them.
If I believe God, which I do, I don't have a choice.
So, what did God create that was evil?
John writes:
In chapter 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John said the devil was a murderer from his creation and the father of lies.
So the Devil was evil from his creation.
If He was going to create mankind and give them a choice He had to create that choice.
Has the devil ever disobeyed God? No because he is doing exactly what he was created to do. That is to give mankind a choice between good and evil.
Where did mankind have a choice between good and evil?
Only one man ever had that choice.
Paul writes:
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
This man was perfect no sin in him, or the universe
moses writes:
Genesis 2:7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
לנפש being
חיה׃ existing
I wish the translators had translated those last two words instead of adding their beliefs to the text. From here out soul and spirit become one and the same which they are not and cause much confusion in understanding the Bible text.
Any way he became a living being.
this living being that was formed from the dust of the ground was placed in a garden and given the choice between good and evil. The woman was not given that choice.
moses writes:
Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The Woman was not present as she had not been cloned from a part of the man;s body yet.
moses writes:
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
So God took a piece of bone from the man and cloned a woman from that bone.
The first cloning to take place.
In chapter 3 the serpent comes walking up to the woman and convinces her that she will become like God knowing good and evil and her eyes will be opened if she eats the forbidden fruit. The devils first approach was to question Gods word by asking her a question. Just like people today question God's Word.
She ate the fruit and nothing happened. She took some to her husband and gave it to him and told him how good it was. Moses didn't write it but I would like to take a little liberty here by inserting my thoughts on the situation.
My thoughts: the man had been alone for an undetermined amount of duration
before God cloned the woman and brought her to him and they had been together for an undetermined amount of duration and now his thoughts she is going to die and I am going to be left here alone with all these animals. He makes the decision to eat the fruit and die with her. He made a choice between good (obeying God) and evil (disobeying God].
Thus that sin of disobeying brought sin into the universe and condemned every thing in it to death including the universe as well as the inhabitants of the earth
quote:
Hebrews 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
John writes:
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John tells us we are condemned already and gives the reason for that condemnation.
The sin of the man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 doomed all mankind to the lake of fire.
The only way a person can overcome that condemnation is to Trust Jesus to save them and be born again of the spirit of God.
The only choice we have is to change our destination and the ticket has been paid for already all we have to do is pick it up.
Now back to that snake that the devil entered into and talked to the woman through and the man and woman in the garden.
moses writes:
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
So their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked. They tried to cover up their sin. But you can't hide your sins from God.
Along comes God and called to the man who thought he had hid from God but didn't.
Now the blame game begins. The woman blamed the serpent, and the man blamed the woman. But it did not matter they were kicked out of the garden.
Now to the serpent.
moses writes:
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
So God told the serpent he would crawl on his belly from then on.
Well they still do but scientist say they did walk in the past.
AI Buddy writes:
Snakes did have legs millions of years ago. Fossils reveal that their ancestors once roamed the Earth with functional legs.
However, over time, snakes underwent significant adaptations, and their legs gradually disappeared. The exact reasons for this leg loss are still a subject of scientific study.
Now to the comment on "Lucifer actualized it".
“Lucifer” is a Latin word meaning light-bearer, from lux meaning light and fero meaning to carry. It found its way into the KJV and the NKJV through the Vulgate version of the Bible.
Isaiah writes:
Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Since God determines who is in power and who is not and this is a proverb against the king of Babylon it has nothing to do with the devil although mankind decided the devil had to fall and create evil in doing so because they could not believe God created evil as He said he did they have tried to make this verse to refer to the king of Babylon and the devil.
But pay very close attention to verse 16 where it says "is this the man".
If Isaiah is talking about the devil why would he refer to him as a man because the devil is no man he is an angel.
Hope that clarifies it for you as you mentioned this in the past.
God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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