The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?

Hi Taq, Science. That's my problem with the BBT It has no place the energy can come from to begin expanding to start with. According to science there is nothing outside the little pea sized universe that came from nothing. Your clock is running slow they have already started talking over 28 billion years old since the last discovery of billions of Galaxies existing.And that is not as far as it goes back. Thats just what is visible now.God Bless,

Hi GDR,

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Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

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From the Old Testament.

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John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

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From the New TestamentExplain to me what part of all things does not mean all things?
Or without Him was not any thing made that was made? I think in that context I was talking about creation.I got no problem with science trying to figure out and tell me how God created things. I just don't like being told I am stupid, when scientist can't figure out where the energy came from that expanded into the universe. Yes that is what John said.
But He is also the creator. The universe and everything in it for created for Him.
You were created for Him and He died for you so you could spend eternity with Him if you chose too. That goes for everybody else also.If you want to talk about some of our differences drop me an email address is in my profile.God Bless,​

Hi AZPaul, If we can't deal with the truth in a religious thread where can we deal with it?I thought the science threads was the only place we could do majik.We have stuff evolving with no way to begin to exist but Magic.
We have a universe beginning to exist without a source of energy but magic.God Bless,

jesus who?

Hi Percy, I believe Einstein was correct to begin with.Not only that but because Jesus/God created it in the beginning. Science says so. That has more than doubled now. Wouldn't they have to have a place to exist before they could bump together? So is the Milky Way Galaxy sitting still?If space behind the Milky Way Galaxy is expanding at the speed of light then we have to be moving at the speed of light don't we? Or Can the space go through us. Andromeda is said to be 4 to 5 billion years old. That would put it 23 billion years behind us. But it is said to collide with us in 4 billion years. No everything tied to the Milkey Way. If space is expanding behind us at the speed of light wouldn't we have to be moving at the speed of light? Then we are sitting still and space is not expanding beihind us only in front of us? Let me see said the blind man. Space behind them is expanding at the speed of light. Space then is expanding at the speed of light in front of us. Space is expanding at the speed of light behind us causing them to be speeding away from us at the speed of light, Is that what you are trying to tell me?God Bless,

I just have to ask, how do you tell which direction is in front or behind you in space? is it just whatever is behind your head?

Some of them walked with Him daily for 3.5 years.God Bless,

In a stand-up comic act on Comedy Central. Religion threads are, by definition, fantasy. No truth to them. In your intellectually stunted state we can understand such perception errors. The universe definitely had plenty of energy to work with, ICANT. But it wasn't your majik what brung it. It may have been the vacuum energy of space itself that rushed in to fill the void left when the inflaton field quiesced. A stark phase transition. We haven't made that solid in theory, yet, but we know whatever happened was not religious so was not from any majik.

Well you sure got me there pastor. Do'h!We're having the 'did he exist argument' elsewhere so here we're saying 'for the sake of this discussion here let's all assume Jesus existed', now show us how he created the universe.

Until 1931 Einstein accepted a static universe with respect to changes in size and believed the universe had always been and always would be. Then he saw the Hubble data showing the universe was expanding. This is the proposition that you say you will prove in this thread. You can't cite your proposition as a conclusion. Science says it doesn't know but has some hypotheses. Much, much more than doubled. If it was once the size of a single proton (10^-15 meters) and is now, the observable portion anyway, about 90 billion light years in diameter (8.5×10²⁶ meters) then it has grown by a factor of roughly 10⁴² times. You'd have to ask a cosmologist, but my layperson answer is that quantum uncertainty means that there can never be a zero amount of space. All motion is measured relative to something else. The Milky Way is stationary with respect to itself. From within the Milky Way we see the Andromeda galaxy approaching and the more distant Pinwheel galaxy receding.Nothing made of matter (galaxies are made of matter) is moving at the speed of light. Only photons in a vacuum can move at the speed of light. In what follows you use the term "behind" several times with respect to galaxies. There is no behind, in front of, above or below in space unless a point of reference is provided. The term you just used, "behind the Milky Way galaxy," has no meaning because "behind" isn't a direction in space. Except for the last sentence, this is gibberish. Again, nothing made of matter, like galaxies, can move at the speed of light relative to any other object. And an object's speed can only be measured with respect to other objects.We've attempted to measure the expansion of space, and the current best figure seems to be 67.5 kilometers/second/megaparsec. For example, the space out around Pluto is receding from us at a rate of about .01 millimeters/second. Further away the space out by the nearest star, Proxima Centauri, is receding from us at a rate of about 88 millimeters/second. Much further away the space out by the Andromeda galaxy is receding from us at a rate of about 52.5 kilometers/second, but is approaching us even faster, so we see the Andromeda galaxy approaching at about 100 kilometers/second. The speed of nearby objects such as stars in the Milky Way or nearby galaxies like the Magellanic Clouds or the Andromeda galaxy can easily overwhelm the rate of expansion of space.The the rate at which space is expanding away from us increases with increasing distance, and almost all galaxies outside our local group are moving away from us due to the expansion of space. Everything is sitting still with respect to itself. These distant galaxies are stationary with respect to themselves and see the Milky Way as receding from them. If you understood what I've said in this post then you now understand that this is gibberish.--Percy

Hi Charlie, I have to prove He existed first because if He did,'t exist He could not create anything.In Message 87 I gave proof of a historical Jesus. You did not comment on it so I assume you did not read it.I posted the same information in the other thread in msg 442, I can't get the mid code to workI guess you didn[t see that one either.God Bless]

You are not a stupid man, but even the most brilliant mind in the world can be wrong about things that can't be proven empirically.You didn't respond to my critique of your understanding of how to understand the Bible. However that isn't really that important. What matters is the things we would agree on.Here is a line from our liturgy which really jumped out too me. It is simply this in referring to trinitarian belief, but it also applies to our Christian faith in general."So complex so simple, so clear so mysterious."It is the simple and clear part of our faith that matters, and it can be summed up in the "Golden Rule". "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you". From Matthew 7:

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12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

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Another way of putting it can be seen in my signature.That is what is clear and simple and that is what really matters. I'm sure that as a pastor you have applied that in your life and I'm sure that you have done a lot of good for a lot of people.The complex and mysterious part is interesting, but not as important in general. However, in taking the Bible as being inerrant then we can use passages in Scripture to justify acts of unjustified violence. That has happened numerous times.Let's just agree that God is a loving god and is responsible for the fact that we exist. More importantly, that we can have empathy and morality, and that we are called to humbly apply this in how we live our lives and be very thankful.

What science? Then you must also have a problem with many other theories in science because they don't have a place where that energy came from. Germ theory doesn't have a place for the origin of that energy. Atom theory does not explain that origin. The theory of relativity doesn't attempt to explain it. It would seem that you reject all of science. There are many different theories out there, some of which have other universes outside our own. What are you talking about???? Discovering more galaxies doesn't increase the age of the universe. The initial expansion of our universe is as far as it goes back for our universe.

Hi Candle2,If you want me to take the time to answer your posts you will have to stick with what the Bible says as I have a lot of people to answer. The Hebrew word רע is a absolute state masculine plural intensive noun not an adjective as any other word that it has been translated as. According to the Hebrew Lexicon it means evil and out of 663 times used in the Bible was translated evil 442 times all other words it was translated as are adjectives.
Since it is a noun evil is the only definition possible in Isaiah 45:7. It was translated bad 13 times Wickedness 59 times, calamity 0 times, out of a total of 663 times it appears in the Bible.God was creating an entity He was not describing the entity. The Hebrew language is not English and don't necessary work like English. Isaiah did not know anything about English French, German or any language other than Hebrew and that is what he used to write . If you want to understand what he is saying you need to learn the language and think like he did.He meant exactly what he said and you can't read it any other way. Do you know what NIV stands for? Non Inspired Version Well He did not create light He is light so it already existed but darkness did not exist until He created it neither did evil. The Hebrew verb ברא which means create is in front of darkness and evil in Isaiah 45:7. Where does He claim to do that? He allowed the devil to create calamities for Job.
But He did not direct them. Well the devil did not create either one as he has no creative powers. Jesus is the only one that created anything as He created all things. It does not. That statement was made in the lamentation to the King of Tyre the devil is mentioned nowhere in that text. Quit reading things into the Bible you aren't supposed to add to it. God Bless,

Hi Taq, Why would I need to know where any of those things energy came from. Don't they all exist in the universe?Doesn't the universe have all the energy necessary to produce everything in it ?
So they all have an energy source.The universe is what does not have a source for its energy. Hypothesis are not theories they are only the assumptions of man or his imagination.

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Early universe observations by the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) cannot be explained by current cosmological models. These models estimate the universe to be 13.8 billion years in age, based on the big-bang expanding universe concept.

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My research proposes a model that determines the universe's age to be 26.7 billion years, which accounts for the JWST's "impossible early galaxy" observations.

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Impossible early galaxies refer to the fact that some galaxies dating to the cosmic dawn—500 to 800 million years after the big bang—have disks and bulges similar to those which have passed through a long period of evolution. And smaller in size galaxies are apparently more massive than larger ones, which is quite the opposite of expectation.

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https://phys.org/news/2023-08-universe-theory-believed.html I didn't know it had stopped expanding when did it do that?
I thought it was getting bigger all the time.God Bless,