The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?

Where did the devil say that?God Bless,

Time sure flies! In January of 2008, 16 years ago, ICANT started a topic here at EvC titled Before Big Bang God or Singularity.
In addition to ICANT, we had 26 participants. Both Cavediver and Son Goku were there, as well as some of the members in this thread, including Rahvin, GDR,Myself, and even a post from AZPaul3! Lets take a Retro peek.. Message 1So that one lasted 405 posts! You were quite a bit more active back then, Rev. Tell me...have any of your musings about Cosmology changed in 16 years? Have you learned more truth from the Bible?Add By Edit: Percy finally closed your old thread only due to the idea that threads need be only a certain length or are going nowhere. This is what Percy said at the time he closed your 16 year ago thread: Message 405

Percy:

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hen I originally began this site I intended that debate threads should close with an assessment by the moderator. As things have worked out most threads do not have any consistent moderation (I never imagined that there would be so many simultaneously active threads), and I haven't really moderated this thread though I think I've read all of it, but in any case, I'd like to offer an assessment.
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One of the most wonderful qualities of the Internet is venues where those who want to learn can ask questions. It isn't uncommon to have the good fortune to find someone who knows a great deal about what you want to know, and that is certainly true of this thread, whose participants included a couple true cosmological experts and several sufficiently competent amateurs given the level of this discussion.
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Those asking the cosmological questions could have learned a great deal, and perhaps they even did, no way to be sure at this point, but what this thread makes clear is that you can only explain something to someone who already believes it is true. If they believe it is false then they'll find every excuse and opportunity to avoid reaching an understanding.
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But this practice isn't unique to those approaching science from a spiritual perspective, it is also true of the reverse, as we often see when science minded folks ask Christians about the Trinity.
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So the problem becomes how do you explain something to someone who doesn't believe it and only wants to disprove it? We can argue that one doesn't have to accept it, just understand it, but this turns out not to be so easy to do, for anyone from either side of this debate.

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We all need to learn a little bit how the other half of this Forum thinks and why they think the way they do. What do you think, Pastor?​

​ I think that much of the dogma and legend surrounding Christianity comes from non Biblical sources. As far as spirits go, "the devil" may likely exist but was

A created Being.

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More precisely a freewilled being who chose evil, setting up Kreefts idea that God has actually only allowed the *possibility of evil.*
Whether or not my speculation was that Lucifer chose it or whether a more plausible belief is that *We* choose it (even after being saved) is up for discussion.

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Was, Is Not, and Yet *is* for those whose names are not written in the book of life.
In other words, even non believers cant blame God if god exists.
Nobody is ever "sent to Hell" except the fallen one himself and his fallen cronies.
Humans always have free will until the day that we die.

243 posts and still nothing...

I think we should stay on topic.

Hi Phat, Everything that exists was created. Even if the 1 billionth size hot dense pea sized universe that had no place to exist did it. Everybody that goes to Hell goes as they don't have to do anything to go to Hell. They are condemned already because the man created from the dust of the ground really made the choice for them. They can really only choose not to go to Hell if they so choose.God Bless,

Hi Theo, Wouldn't anything concerning Jesus be on topic?God Bless,

No.What would be on topic would be your answer to your own question.The Historical Jesus: Did he create the universe?But you seem to want to talk about anything but your topic.

Hi Tan, I got about 3000 post trying to find out what existed that created the universe and where the energy came from to do so. The only answer I have got so far is that "we don't know."But just keep hanging around with both feet on the floor and I will get to it shortly. We had a busy weekend at Church and things are still hectic around the house as my wife had surgery on her legs last week.God Bless,

Hi Charlie, That answer to that question is an emphatic YES.God Bless,

What we are waiting for is the evidence that supports that answer.

Hi Phat, I prefer not to think every time I do I get into trouble.God Bless,

Great, we can close the thread now.

Phat, here are the boasts made by Satan in Isaiah 14.Vs. 13 "I will ascent into heaven, I will exalt my throne
(he has a throne) above the stars of God (he was going
to be above Michael and all of them); I will also sit on the
mount of the congregation, on the farthest sides of the
north;"14. "I will ascend above the the heights of the clouds, I
will be like the Most High."Satan coveted what God Almighty had. He greatly
desired it. He was full of pride and greed.Satan must have some awesome powers in order to think
that he could war against God and win.By the multitude of his merchandise (Ezekiel 28:16) Satan
was able to convince a third of God's angels to follow him.It seems insane to those of us who understand that
God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient that
the angels would fight against Him.In any event, I feel certain that they knew God could
read their minds, and that they could not hide their
thoughts from Him.Perhaps this is why they went on the offensive. They
could have wished to strike first. I don't know.The point is that Satan did covet what God had. He also
wanted to take it by force, to steal it.He is father of lies. And, he broke all God's
Commandments, with the possible exception of #4.Angels are not allowed to defy God's laws, no more than
we are.I agree with you in that there are many who take their
doctrines and opinions from books other than the Bible.Books are a good thing, and they can help with info that
one might not otherwise find. But, if they contradict the
Bible, they must be dismissed.

Hi Taq, But that was not the question he asked.How about we start off with an energy source of pure energy that is unlimited.That energy source exists in an eternal existence.That would mean that there was a light period in that existence because energy is not black. How long had that light period lasted, eternally in the past and the future. We have daylight (day) and darkness (night) due to the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun, but existence is not affected by our conditions. Those conditions were created for mankind to function.Now just picture Jesus sectioning off a section in existence and injecting it with an enormous amount of energy that is eternal in existence. Can you even get an inkling of what kind of light show that would create when all that energy began to move at the speed of light at the same time ? It could have started out the size of the Milky Way and Andromedia combined, to start with at the moment Jesus began to move it around to start creating all the parts and pieces of the universe we see and do not see? You ask could it have been bigger? The answer would be yes, it could of been just as big as Jesus wanted it to be as when He created the Universe He had all power required to do anything.The CMB is evidence of that light show.I will leave it at that for the moment as I have some things I have to take care of.God Bless,