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Author | Topic: The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member (Idle past 345 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi C2,
C2 writes: Satan must have some awesome powers in order to thinkthat he could war against God and win. Your problem that war has not taken place yet.
C2 writes: Angels are not allowed to defy God's laws, no more thanwe are. Angels are created beings not humans. They do what they are programed to do nothing more or nothing less. If the devil did not exist you would not have a choice period. Mankind is the only living life form that can disobey God. He created mankind and gave him the choice between good and evil and the only man who had that choice was the man created from the dust of the ground he is the only mankind that has ever been created perfect. Jesus was God in the flesh with no dna of mankind or even blood. Had He had either He would not have been a sufficient sacrifice for the sins or mankind. He would have sin residing in Him. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
ICANT writes: But that was not the question he asked. It's the entire point of this thread, to show evidence that Jesus created the universe.
Now just picture Jesus sectioning off a section in existence and injecting it with an enormous amount of energy that is eternal in existence. Where is the evidence that this happened?
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Candle3 Member Posts: 934 Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
CANT, you stated:
Mankind is the only living life form that can disobey God. ***Prove it.
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Admin Director Posts: 13140 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
I haven't posted in three days, so I will begin moderating this thread. In Message 220 I posted:
Admin in Message 220 writes: I'm not moderating this thread, but I think two things would be helpful:
If these continue to be issues then tomorrow I will be imposing post limits, beginning at 5 messages/day and decrementing by one each day that these issues continue.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
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ICANT in Message 255 writes: How about we start off with an energy source of pure energy that is unlimited. Pure energy, huh? So, how did you determine the purity of the energy? I guess this implies that there are other impure forms of energy? What form does this pure energy take, is it supercharged electrons, or gamma rays, high power lasers, big springs being stretched or compressed, gasoline that can explode?
That energy source exists in an eternal existence. Ok, How did you test to confirm its eternal existence, what kind of tests did you do? And if it's eternal, how do you get it out of the source?
That would mean that there was a light period in that existence because energy is not black. Good, so far we have energy that is:1. pure 2. eternal 3. not black How long had that light period lasted, eternally in the past and the future. I'm missing your point here. If something is eternal, asking how long it lasted doesn't seem answerable.
We have daylight (day) and darkness (night) due to the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun, but existence is not affected by our conditions. Those conditions were created for mankind to function. So day and night were created so mankind could function, but it doesn't affect existence? Please explain.
Now just picture Jesus sectioning off a section in existence and injecting it with an enormous amount of energy that is eternal in existence. Do you mean like with a great big syringe sucking up the energy from existence, and squirting it into eternal existence? Or more like a big spatula scraping energy that already exists in eternity into an eternal existence?
Can you even get an inkling of what kind of light show that would create when all that energy began to move at the speed of light at the same time ? I can't really get an inkling. So the energy was motionless until it started moving at the speed of light, all at once? What forces kept it motionless and what forces caused it to start moving?
It could have started out the size of the Milky Way and Andromedia combined, to start with at the moment Jesus began to move it around to start creating all the parts and pieces of the universe we see and do not see? I'm not sure what your question here is. Is Jesus moving light around like shining a flashlight in different directions?
You ask could it have been bigger? The answer would be yes, it could of been just as big as Jesus wanted it to be as when He created the Universe He had all power required to do anything. Good, we don't have to even think about sizes because it was every possible size all at once. Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
No
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ICANT Member (Idle past 345 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi Taq,
Taq writes: Where is the evidence that this happened? The universe is full of energy. The universe is not going to die for a lack of energy just the opposite it will melt with fervent heat. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
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ICANT in Message 262 writes: The universe is full of energy. Do you mean there's energy everywhere in the Universe or do you mean there's no more room for energy in the Universe?
ICANT in Message 262 writes: The universe is not going to die for a lack of energy just the opposite it will melt with fervent heat. Can you explain further? What is the mechanism of this melting and just exactly what is melting? Is it dripping too? Can a sun melt? How hot will it get? Is there more energy being created and if it can melt, why hasn't already melted? Is fervent heat that new green energy I've been hearing about?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9012 From: Canada Joined:
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The universe is not going to die for a lack of energy just the opposite it will melt with fervent heat. Since this makes no sense may I guess you might have read the phrase "heat death" somewhere?
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ICANT Member (Idle past 345 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi Tany,
Tanypteryx writes: Pure energy, huh? Yes you guys like to talk about dark energy and dark matter so I thought I would keep it clean.
Tanypteryx writes:
Science talks about Dark energy and I suppose it makes dark matter.
I guess this implies that there are other impure forms of energy? Tanypteryx writes: What form does this pure energy take, is it supercharged electrons, or gamma rays, high power lasers, big springs being stretched or compressed, gasoline that can explode? None of those fancy things just that the energy had the ability to do work and had the ability to follow orders and construct the most beautiful universe there is.
Tanypteryx writes: Since Jesus is the source and the controller of that energy it is like the angels and do His will. Ok, How did you test to confirm its eternal existence, what kind of tests did you do? And if it's eternal, how do you get it out of the source? Science has proved you can't get something from nothing therefore the universe has to be eternal in existence in some form. But not necessarily as we see it today.
Tanypteryx writes: I'm missing your point here. If something is eternal, asking how long it lasted doesn't seem answerable. The light period came to a close to get the earth ready for us to inhabit it. but in existence where God is has never flickered, in all of eternity.
Tanypteryx writes: So day and night were created so mankind could function, but it doesn't affect existence? Please explain. If we did not have night for the earth to cool down and especially all the asphalt and concrete we have we would be in trouble living above ground. If we had 3 suns the same distance from the earth just placed around the earth at thirds of the earth so we had midday all the time how long do you think it would take for the earth to be uninhabitable. The heat from the suns would just keep building getting hotter and hotter. But God knew exactly what we needed for us to survive and that is what He created, it was no accident. The earth exists as it does so we can live on it. The earth having days and nights does not affect existence. When you compare our little section of the universe compared to the rest of the universe we are very small. You ask how old is the universe? Science is talking about 28 billion years now but there is no way to know how big it is.
Tanypteryx writes: Do you mean like with a great big syringe sucking up the energy from existence, and squirting it into eternal existence? No clown. He would only have to think it there. Remember He is all powerful.
Tanypteryx writes: Or more like a big spatula scraping energy that already exists in eternity into an eternal existence? l/qs] That would be a big spatula wouldn't it. [qs= So the energy was motionless until it started moving at the speed of light, all at once? I could swear I thought I asked that question 15 years ago, about that little bitty thing that took off at light speed 13.8 billion years ago. I also ask why did it take it so long since in was under all that pressure of holding the entire universe in such a small place why it didn't start sooner. I still haven't got an answer.
Tanypteryx writes: I'm not sure what your question here is. Is Jesus moving light around like shining a flashlight in different directions? Why would He be moving a light He is light, When He is in His glorified body.
Tanypteryx writes: Good, we don't have to even think about sizes because it was every possible size all at once. Existence was everywhere, which means energy was everywhere . He could have started with any size even that little pea sized universe or smaller.Jesus has been building the universe since the beginning whenever that was, until He got it like He wanted it. You say how long did it take Him? Just one light period. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 345 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi Ned,
This is the first we have talked to each other in years.
NosyNed writes: Since this makes no sense may I guess you might have read the phrase "heat death" somewhere? Yes I have heard of it but no that is not where I get it from.
quote: Can you imagine that fisherman 2000 years coming up with such a statement?The reason for it melting is it is tainted with sin and has to be cleansed. No problem God is going to create another one without sin in it. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
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ICANT in Message 249 writes: I got about 3000 post trying to find out what existed that created the universe and where the energy came from to do so. The only answer I have got so far is that "we don't know." Well, you didn't say how many times people posted "we don't know" or if there is a problem with that answer. Did people say they knew the answer and then it turned out they didn't? Do you think people know the answers and are refusing to tell you?
But just keep hanging around with both feet on the floor and I will get to it shortly. We had a busy weekend at Church and things are still hectic around the house as my wife had surgery on her legs last week. I have been busy too, but I can post here while my imaging computer is processing photos for me. My grandson is home on leave for the first time in 2.5 years and I'm meeting my great-grandson for the first time. Some kinds of busy are more enjoyable than others. Take care.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
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ICANT Member (Idle past 345 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi Tany,
Tanypteryx writes: Do you mean there's energy everywhere in the Universe or do you mean there's no more room for energy in the Universe? There is energy everywhere in existence and since the universe exists in existence.You guys call it CMB don't you? Tanypteryx writes: Can you explain further? At Planck time the universe was said to be about 100 million trillion trillion kelvins (equivalent to 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit).I think it was referred to as a soup. I think something similar to that would be sufficient. Tanypteryx writes: Is there more energy being created Energy can not be created you know that.Energy can be recycled. Tanypteryx writes: Is fervent heat that new green energy I've been hearing about? No. More like the BB early universe. Green energy is removing the green dollars from your pockets into their pockets. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Admin Director Posts: 13140 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
My understanding was that you were going to connect the Jesus of history, as opposed to the Christ of faith, to the creation of the universe:
ICANT in Message 1 writes: In this thread I will discuss Jesus roll in the creation of the universe and His Physical roll on earth.
Please begin making progress toward that goal. Edited by Admin, : Charge author to Admin.
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
ICANT writes: The universe is full of energy. The universe is not going to die for a lack of energy just the opposite it will melt with fervent heat. Where is the evidence that this energy came from Jesus?
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