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Author | Topic: The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
have you asked him?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
You and he do not understand logic. Also, I did not realize the universe relied on logic. Do you have an argument why you think is to be?
ABEThe Sartre quote has nothing to do with the rest of your post. What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9633 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Phat: Logic has nothing to do with it. Logic can't even explain what "nothing" is. As soon as you get beyond high school physics you're beyond sitting in an armchair and mangling words to try to understand what's going on. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6192 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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My attitude towards philosophy: In the definition and redefining and argumentum ad dictionario (ie, an informal fallacy which I coined standing for relying on dictionary definitions for term), it becomes very clear that the sides of many of these conversations use words completely differently:
Though I may have given philosophers shrift that is too short. My overall opinion was changed by a video by our favorite deity, Mr. Deity (AKA Brian Dalton) in his Way of the Mister series.
Circa Time Mark 4:40, he points out a major difference between philosophy and apologetics. My summary (you can reference the horse's mouth at that time mark) is:
At 5:45, he says that philosophy is not about defending a position (which is all that apologetics is about), but rather philosophy is about challenging what we presume to know so that we can go on to discover new things. Which is the opposite of what Christians try to do through apologetics, described earlier as a practice of "prostituting philosophy." "Christian philosopher is almost an oxymoron." Though actually the video I had seen was something of a "Part One" to that video, MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: I'm Leaving Atheism! Or not. Viewing it again, this one is an exercise in philosophobabble (similar to Star Trek's technobabble (listen closely to Geordi LaForge some time), only here for philosophy). Watch it just for fun! Edited by Admin, : Embed video. Edited by dwise1, : slight typo correction, plus added a concluding statement to "Apologetics takes the exact opposite approach" for sake of parallelism: "Accept it and don't you dare try to question it! Or think about it too much."
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8712 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Basically he argues that in order for something to exist something always had to exist. Well, D'uh! Of course something has to precede the present thing. All we need do is look at the world around us to see that. Nothing ever just pops out of nothing. Except in QFT. Then it happens all the time. Seems Gaia is not big on your philosophy.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
That's not an argument. It's a bare assertion stated twice. So what makes it illogical? Falsify it.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4084 Joined: Member Rating: 7.8
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Thats not how anything works.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Bare assertions are just...meaningless and unconvincing. Like saying that "blue is obviously the superior color." People who already like blue will agree. Nobody else will be convinced, and there's no actual reason in that statement to suggest that blue is actually "better" in any way. One doesn't need to "falsify" the proposition that blue is the superior color. There's no evidence or argument presented to falsify. The interesting thing is that you actually could make an argument that there has always existed "something." Yours was an appeal to authority (that was the logical fallacy you asked for), but you can actually make a strong argument to that effect. If you'd like a hint...it's in the Laws of Thermodynamics.“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Nihil supernum
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Mister Deity simply refuses to even taste the Kool-aid. He can be annoying if you don't already think as he does.
Watch it just for fun! Yeah why not? ![]()
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6192 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Mister Deity simply refuses to even taste the Kool-aid. Wrong. He used to drink it all the time. He's a "Formon" (former Mormon).
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Tangle Member Posts: 9633 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Phat: Logic has nothing to do with cosmology, almost everything about it is counterintuitive. Space is expanding, everything in the universe is moving away from everything else. But the universe is everything so what is it expanding into? Logic your way out of that one. In the quantum world, things pop into existence "from nothing" (whatever that is) all the time. Almost nothing in the quantum world makes any normal logical sense. You can't think your way through this philosophically or logically.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
You have been here 21 years and you have learned nothing about science and argumentation. Nothing
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
What was it I was supposed to learn?
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Omnivorous Member (Idle past 199 days) Posts: 4001 From: Adirondackia Joined:
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Phat writes: That's not an argument. It's a bare assertion stated twice. So what makes it illogical? Falsify it. Look at it like this: ![]() Let's look at your post in question again.
quote: If I construct a simple syllogism, like so: All men are mortal.Socrates is a man. Therefore, Socrates is mortal. True premises, sound logical structure. Now identify what in your post corresponds to the premises above, and what to the conclusion? "Logic dictates" is empty handwaving, a rhetorical device. Logic is like an app for intellectual rigor, a spellcheck for reason, a hound on the trail of fallacies, but it's also garbage in, garbage out."If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads." Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Mormons never met Jesus. Formons can vary. Some drink the dogma of another belief. Some become atheists and join atheist clubs.
Some make videos. A good living, by the way
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Taq Member Posts: 10385 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
dwise1 writes:
Scientific types, including engineers, use words to describe the world and how we find things to work. As a result, we must often create and adjust new definitions for describing something new. Of course, our newly created definitions are accompanied by explanations of those definitions: basically, "Here's this new thing we found. Let's call it by this name with kind of describes it and here is how we define that new name. Now let's discuss it." Non-scientific types use words to redefine the world. They use definitions as long-established authorities which cannot be questioned even though they are very arbitrary. Practitioners include philosophers, theologians, apologists, and lawyers. Basically: "Here's the result I want, so let's see if I can find some definition that can get me that result. Or one that I can bend enough to get there." Precisely. Scientists work with the data. Apologists use rhetoric.
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