Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 52 (9179 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Happy Birthday: Theodoric
Post Volume: Total: 918,148 Year: 5,405/9,624 Month: 430/323 Week: 70/204 Day: 12/34 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
Phat
Member
Posts: 18435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 256 of 352 (916301)
02-29-2024 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Tangle
02-29-2024 1:46 PM


Re: Sharing Transcript snippets
Tangle writes:
You've already admitted that you carry on listening to the random brain farts of unqualified YouTubers if they are saying something that you already agree with and like the way they're saying it.
Keyword: *unqualified*
Are you qualified? Is AZPaul3?
Is Theodoric?
How about Percy? (Mr.Washington Post himself! )
And how about the Washington Post itself?
How about "government officials?"
Powell
Yellin et al. Lets discuss what being qualified really means.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Tangle, posted 02-29-2024 1:46 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Theodoric, posted 02-29-2024 2:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 259 by AZPaul3, posted 02-29-2024 3:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 260 by Percy, posted 02-29-2024 4:02 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8612
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


(3)
Message 257 of 352 (916302)
02-29-2024 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
02-29-2024 1:51 PM


Re: CBDC Defined
Allegedly, he claims that under a CBDC system, the government itself will have the information (or the Federal Reserve) and that the private transaction information can be more easily accessed.
The system already exists. The Fed, the government, your bank, your grocer can already find out everything useful there is to know about you. You have been manipulated into every purchase and its social acceptance since 8th grade.
If there was real advantage to be had with these new national bitcoin-wannabees, the corporate world, not the governments, would be leading the charge.
I think that the fear being peddled is that a government could profile its citizens to a degree through such transaction information.
The databases are already there. A bitcoin is not necessary. The government can, and does, profile the intricacies of individual, group and societal money flows now, today. All they need is the will, reason, excuse and a staff of database programmers.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 02-29-2024 1:51 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9346
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 258 of 352 (916304)
02-29-2024 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
02-29-2024 2:06 PM


Re: Sharing Transcript snippets
But why do you think this yahoo is? BTW, I don't have a Ph.D but I am fairly highly educated, formally and informally.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Phat, posted 02-29-2024 2:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8612
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 259 of 352 (916305)
02-29-2024 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
02-29-2024 2:06 PM


Re: Sharing Transcript snippets
Keyword: *unqualified*

Are you qualified? Is AZPaul3?
Is Theodoric?
Of course I am qualified. I am well qualified. I have studied and participated in economics, banking, macro- and micro-economics for more than a lot of years. I have studied the discipline on a nerd level with an MBA. And another masters nerd in computers.
What am I qualified for? For being skeptical of conspiracy crap especially involving my known nerd proclivities.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Phat, posted 02-29-2024 2:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22687
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 260 of 352 (916307)
02-29-2024 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
02-29-2024 2:06 PM


Re: Sharing Transcript snippets
I don't think denial and pugnacity are the answer. What I find most amazing is that you haven't lost everything.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Phat, posted 02-29-2024 2:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10191
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 261 of 352 (916312)
02-29-2024 6:26 PM


Another example of ironic paranoia
I did get a chuckle out of the conspiracy theorists who refused to get the COVID vaccine because they thought Bill Gates had put a tracker in the vaccine. The epidemiologists I work with actually used de-identified cell phone tracking to measure mobility during the pandemic to help model viral spread. They were worried about the non-existent tracker in the vaccine, all the while us tricky scientists were tracking them with their phones. Not an article from our group, but a similar approach:
It’s complicated: characterizing the time-varying relationship between cell phone mobility and COVID-19 spread in the US | npj Digital Medicine

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-29-2024 10:59 PM Taq has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 262 of 352 (916322)
02-29-2024 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Taq
02-29-2024 6:26 PM


Re: Another example of ironic paranoia
They were worried about the non-existent tracker in the vaccine, all the while us tricky scientists were tracking them with their phones.
And the conspiracy theorists all post selfies on Facebook every time they blow their nose, and all the other exciting events in their lives! Those guys sure aren't living off grid.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Taq, posted 02-29-2024 6:26 PM Taq has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 263 of 352 (916534)
03-06-2024 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Taq
02-29-2024 1:54 PM


The Problem With Excessive Government
Taq writes:
What I am more interested in is why you think CBDC's are any more a threat to First Amendment rights than any other sort of digital record-keeping that has been going on for the last 5 decades?
The BRICS nations are maneuvering to someday compete and oust the US Dollar from global currency reserve status. As long as the US Federal Reserve keeps "printing money" (A euphemism nowadays...only 3-5% of total dollars circulate in paper form) the value of the dollar will not continue to hold down stronger forms of wealth.
Our dollar is fiat. (as are many currencies) but is backed by nothing. nada. zero. zilch. The BRICS plan on backing their currencies with hard assets such as gold, oil, lithium, and even copper and steel. Since our greedy industrialists allowed such industries to relocate near areas of cheap labor, we have enjoyed an artificial cheap economy of clothes, shoes,paper products, steel, and electronics. The top 10% own 90% of all wealth (in the form of value of dollars).
Meanwhile, the other investors(talk about rubes) trust the products being offered by financial "experts". NVIDIA, for example, is a vastly overvalued stock that anchors many investment portfolios. So is Apple. So is Amazon. Tesla. Etc... In fact, our stock market is arguably propped up by companies that buy their own stocks. How the Fed took control of the economy
The problem is the FED itself. By propping up markets that should be allowed to decline in normal cycles, they have become self appointed financial wizards that manipulate the economy at the expense of valid assets that should be allowed to rise. The US middle class is in for a rude awakening one of these days...and its their own fault for believing what the financial advisors and markets tell them.
No, I'm no expert. No, I do not have a crystal ball...I do not know what is going to happen exactly or when, but my only argument is that the US financial system is not sound and is overdue for a correction. A MAJOR correction! What worries me is what will happen to my pension and my social security, but I trust that the government will focus on the needs of the majority rather than be beholden to the top 5%.
The top 5% have the liberty to diversify, after all. Not only to they have hard assets, they have rare art, for example. They have real estate (though that market is itself in a bubble and should correct within 2-5 years) and they have patience and the wherewithal to whether the storm. Progressives want to tax the crap out of the wealthy, little realizing that the entire assets of the Forbes 500 would not put a dent in the national debt.
My problem with going fully digital is that the government will tax everything at their discretion. I couldn't even sell my car to a private party without getting taxed on my profit from the sale. And I dont believe that government should be allowed to have their hand in everyone's pocket. You guys sometimes treat them as if they are a giant secular church!
And I don't believe that the US should keep debasing our currency and diluting the absolute value of our wealth (expressed through our currency). They better not have secretly sold off our gold reserves, because despite what many think, China has much mor gold than the CCP actually reports. Trust me, they can back their currency with a hard asset. I believe in the rights of the individual over the forced authoritarianism of a government that is desperate itself to become financially sound.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Taq, posted 02-29-2024 1:54 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Percy, posted 03-06-2024 8:01 AM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22687
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 264 of 352 (916535)
03-06-2024 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Phat
03-06-2024 7:50 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
You are hopeless.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 7:50 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Omnivorous, posted 03-06-2024 8:40 AM Percy has not replied
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 9:12 AM Percy has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 265 of 352 (916537)
03-06-2024 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Percy
03-06-2024 8:01 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Percy writes:
You are hopeless.
But he looks forward to both a pension and Social Secuity, a circumstance enjoyed by a vanishing number of Americans. Only about 10-15% of the population qualifies for a pension, and a good number of those in state and local pension plans do not pay SS taxes and will not receive SS payments.
Phat has provided for Phat. Good on him.
Perhaps he has also hoarded gold. When the global trade order collapses from climate disasters and fascist wars, taking the industrial food supply chain with it, he can cast a golden calf to lead him through the US Patriots First roadblocks.
He can't eat it; anyone stronger can take it.
That's real money.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Percy, posted 03-06-2024 8:01 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 9:23 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 266 of 352 (916538)
03-06-2024 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Percy
03-06-2024 8:01 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Hopeless? What precisely should I hope for? You and I trust different sources of information to be sure, but I compare 5 or more sources to increase the likelihood of credibility.
You quote dry statistics on US government websites. Remember the time we both found out that the US values its gold reserves at $35.00 an ounce to this day?
It was you who spotted it and IIRC couldn't explain why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Percy, posted 03-06-2024 8:01 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Percy, posted 03-06-2024 10:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 296 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2024 4:10 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 267 of 352 (916539)
03-06-2024 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Omnivorous
03-06-2024 8:40 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Omni writes:
Phat has provided for Phat. Good on him.
I do not claim to be any sort of financial guru. I am far from perfect. I have spent far too much money on addictions in the past, and I resisted letting the Bank manage my money which would have earned me a pretty penny as the markets went up for years. So I may be biased and a bit bitter.
That being said, I am glad that I am not in any sort of system or party that calls the other guys out for being authoritarians and who committed the unpardonable sin of a tax break for billionaires. Meanwhile, the progressives want to raise taxes and help out the whole globe with our tax dollars, even though we ourselves need help. Is it so unchristian to support the idea of America First? Does not Percy take care of Percy? Does not Omni take care of Omni? I could go on down the peanut gallery roster.
This whole idea of a global Western order with the power to weaponize the dollar and impose sanctions on any rogue state who dares fall out of line is authoritarian and requires the cooperation of the American people. Progressive largess created Trump. You have to deal with him because it looks like he will somehow beat the courts. May God help us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Omnivorous, posted 03-06-2024 8:40 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Omnivorous, posted 03-06-2024 9:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 270 by Taq, posted 03-06-2024 10:55 AM Phat has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 268 of 352 (916540)
03-06-2024 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Phat
03-06-2024 9:23 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Omni writes:
Phat has taken care of Phat. Good on him.
Phat writes:
Does not Percy take care of Percy? Does not Omni take care of Omni? I could go on down the peanut gallery roster.
The kudo was sincere. I consider self-reliance a virtue.
My main point was that your gold will be useless in the apocalyptic world you predict. It's heavy enough for bullets, but too soft. Also, you are more future-secure than most -- but you whine about it like tribal women keening for a death, i.e., like a little bitch.
Otherwise, you bemoan national debt but mock progressives' concerns about Trump blowing trillion dollar balloons of it to cut taxes on billionaires.
Progressives created Trump? Gee, I thought it was the racial fear and hate he stirred up in Prosperity Christians as he descended the escaltor. That and reality tv.
What you regard as thoughts are feelings. Free yourself: Skip the next red pill, substitute a blue.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 9:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22687
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 269 of 352 (916541)
03-06-2024 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
03-06-2024 9:12 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Phat writes:
What precisely should I hope for?
Rationality.
You and I trust different sources of information to be sure, but I compare 5 or more sources to increase the likelihood of credibility.
Five people speaking nonsense is still nonsense.
You quote dry statistics on US government websites. Remember the time we both found out that the US values its gold reserves at $35.00 an ounce to this day?

It was you who spotted it and IIRC couldn't explain why.
It's because of US statute 31 USC § 5116-5117 so that the value of certificates issued on transferred gold between government agencies do not fluctuate in value. The current value is $42.22/ounce. I think it's a bookkeeping convenience for internal government accounting.
When the U.S. government sells gold in the form of coins it is at far above the going rate. For example, consider this gold coin from the U.S. Mint:
It weighs 1 troy oz. and is nearly 100% gold. The value of gold today is $2156.50/ounce, but this coin sells for $3020.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 9:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Percy, posted 03-06-2024 12:26 PM Percy has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10191
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 270 of 352 (916545)
03-06-2024 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Phat
03-06-2024 9:23 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Phat writes:
Is it so unchristian to support the idea of America First?
What do you think Jesus would do with the people massed out our southern border, the people who are hungry, lack shelter, and are fleeing violence in their own country?
This whole idea of a global Western order with the power to weaponize the dollar and impose sanctions on any rogue state who dares fall out of line is authoritarian and requires the cooperation of the American people.
I don't think you know what the word "authoritarian" means. If sanctions are authoritarian then every president in the modern era has been an authoritarian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 9:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 12:29 PM Taq has replied
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 12:39 PM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024