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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 286 of 352 (916562)
03-06-2024 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Taq
03-06-2024 12:45 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Taq stumbles:
Percy writes:
Trivia question: How much does a pound of gold weigh?
0.453592 kilograms.
weighs, not how much mass....
and on the surface of the earth, a pound corresponds to what .453592 kg would weigh.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Taq, posted 03-06-2024 12:45 PM Taq has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 287 of 352 (916563)
03-06-2024 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by xongsmith
03-06-2024 12:59 PM


Re: Pounding the pound
please keep weight and mass separated in your brain.
Very true and I was starting to also reply about this, but then it got messy.
In the Wikipedia article, Pound (mass):
quote:
Usage of the unqualified term pound reflects the historical conflation of mass and weight. This accounts for the modern distinguishing terms pound-mass and pound-force.
I provided that link so that Phat can follow it and learn more.
So because of the conflation of mass and weight, they went ahead and defined an new kind of pound which measures mass instead of weight. But when one merely says "pound", what exactly is he talking about? By creating a distinction between pound-mass and pound-force, unless one is very careful with one's wording, statements about pounds can be very ambiguous, especially in the context of gravitational fields different from standard gravity (9.8 m/s2 or 32 ft/sec2), such as the moon's.
Ambiguity increases when talking about gold since that could introduce a different kind of pound, the troy pound, which Wikipedia says is a unit of mass.
I am so glad that in my physics class we only worked in the metric system. They did have us play with slugs for a while, but then thankfully we went back to metric.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by xongsmith, posted 03-06-2024 12:59 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:48 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18390
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 288 of 352 (916564)
03-06-2024 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Taq
03-06-2024 12:51 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
You are channeling jar, but I cannot argue with scripture. In addition, your argument makes sense in light of your data regarding the reality of domestic terrorism.
My gripe is in regard to shoplifting...one of my pet peeves. We are too soft on crimes against property.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Taq, posted 03-06-2024 12:51 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2024 2:37 PM Phat has replied
 Message 292 by Taq, posted 03-06-2024 3:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 289 of 352 (916565)
03-06-2024 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:26 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
We are too soft on crimes against property.
Serious question.
Is your goal to punish people for committing crimes, or to reduce the incidence of crime?

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:56 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18390
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 290 of 352 (916566)
03-06-2024 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by dwise1
03-06-2024 1:21 PM


Re: Pounding the pound
Thanks for the information. I learned something today. One way that the precious metals dealers verify the real from the fake is by weight. I notice that they always use grams and kilograms. Thus, a Gold i ounce coin should weigh 1.0909 troy ounces or 33.931 grams.
If the coin was fake or impure, the weight would be off.
Another method we use to determine authenticity is by using rare earth magnets, which behave a certain way around genuine metals.
The third method of verification is visual. There are some clever fakes out there, and unwary buyers are paying too much for some coins.
Thanks again for reminding me of the Troy Ounce/Metric system of weight. Using such a system, weight determines volume and purity. a one ounce coin should always weigh 1 troy ounce. If a coin is 90% gold, for example, the weight will reflect the metal mixture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by dwise1, posted 03-06-2024 1:21 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Taq, posted 03-06-2024 3:11 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 294 by Percy, posted 03-06-2024 3:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18390
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 291 of 352 (916567)
03-06-2024 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Rahvin
03-06-2024 2:37 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Mostly the latter, though organized crime needs a swift kick in the teeth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2024 2:37 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2024 3:30 PM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 292 of 352 (916568)
03-06-2024 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:26 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Phat writes:
My gripe is in regard to shoplifting...one of my pet peeves. We are too soft on crimes against property.
I suspect we can find quite a bit of agreement on that topic. I also know that a lot of things I gripe about don't have simple solutions, and I suspect you have found the same thing.
We are also towards the top of the list for number of incarcerated per capita in the developed world. That is an issue we need to look at as a society.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:26 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 293 of 352 (916569)
03-06-2024 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:48 PM


Re: Pounding the pound
Phat writes:
One way that the precious metals dealers verify the real from the fake is by weight.
I would hope they don't. They should be using density. In fact, Archimedes rose to fame in the ancient world because he came up with a way to find fake coins by measuring density.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 294 of 352 (916570)
03-06-2024 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:48 PM


Re: Pounding the pound
Phat in Message 290 writes:
Thus, a Gold i ounce coin should weigh 1.0909 troy ounces or 33.931 grams.
Since gold is measured in troy ounces, a one ounce gold coin should weigh 1 troy ounce. One avoirdupois ounce of anything should weigh .91 troy ounces.
One troy ounce weighs 31.1 grams.
One avoirdupois ounce weighs 28.35 grams.
I think you meant the one ounce American Eagle gold coin (or something very similar), which does weigh 1.0909 troy ounces or 33.931 grams, but definitely does not weigh 1 avoirdupois ounce. They definitely mean one troy ounce when they say "one ounce," because this is gold we're talking about, and they're not referring to the weight of the coin but the weight of the gold in the coin.
This means the coin is about 91.67% pure (1/1.0909), and if you visit the U.S. Mint's page for the coin you'll see that they cite that figure (American Eagle Gold Proof Coin | U.S. Mint).
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(4)
Message 295 of 352 (916571)
03-06-2024 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:56 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Mostly the latter, though organized crime needs a swift kick in the teeth.
That was kind of a trick question. Punishment is intended to prevent crime. If there is no crime, there should be no need for punishment. It's supposed to be a deterrent...unless you also get an emotional dose of dopamine from seeing transgressors suffer. I'd challenge you to take some time to consider your feelings and motivations on criminal justice.
If you actually want to reduce shoplifting and other property crimes...would it surprise you to know that "getting tougher" does not correlated with a reduction in crime?
The causes of shoplifting and other forms of physical theft are well-known. Poverty. Income inequality. Desperation.
Massive inflation and economic suffering lead directly to increased property crime. You can imprison people for longer - it wont affect that increase much. It'll cost you more tax dollars though, to deal with enforcement and prosecution and incarceration.
Why the focus on punishment, when it's the least effective way to combat crime? When the better solution for literally everyone - for your property rights, for your tax bill, for the lives of people who might be driven to steal - is literally better welfare programs and more progressive taxation?

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 03-07-2024 8:14 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 296 of 352 (916572)
03-06-2024 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
03-06-2024 9:12 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Why does it matter what the US internally values its gold holdings at? Does it have any effect on you? The dollar? Financial markets?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 9:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Phat, posted 03-07-2024 3:52 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 297 of 352 (916573)
03-06-2024 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Rahvin
03-06-2024 1:00 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
I think he means non-christians and non-english speaking brown people.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Rahvin, posted 03-06-2024 1:00 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Phat, posted 03-07-2024 3:40 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18390
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 298 of 352 (916588)
03-07-2024 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by Theodoric
03-06-2024 4:14 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Always running to the race card, are we? I never even think that way until you bring it up. I suppose we owe the world everything for our evil and exploitative past. Or maybe we should just let them grow up without giving them everything we have. I don't really see too many truly poor people in this country, but I do see addicts and con artists. Yes, there are good people too and I applaud their selfless altruism. I can learn from many of them and do. What I won't accept is some consensus that I owe anybody anything.
If one gives, it should not be mandated by taxation. (Also no "white" guilt.) It should be anonymous, voluntary, and cheerfully done. Give America back its freedom and individuality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2024 4:14 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2024 8:09 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18390
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 299 of 352 (916589)
03-07-2024 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Theodoric
03-06-2024 4:10 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Theo writes:
Why does it matter what the US internally values its gold holdings at?
It only matters to me if it is a way to dampen speculative freedoms.
Does it have any effect on you?
The jury is out at the moment.
The dollar? Financial markets?
Gold and the dollar are countercyclical. Pumping liquidity into the markets is a method of control. Personal initiative is squashed in favor of group consensus and the "needs of the many." If they want to help Americans they could fix (and pay back) social security, let the markets fail and self-correct, and get off their soapbox. In an airplane with no oxygen, you put on your own mask first before trying to help others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2024 4:10 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Theodoric, posted 03-07-2024 8:23 AM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 300 of 352 (916590)
03-07-2024 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Phat
03-07-2024 3:40 AM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
So America of the 1800's? Pre-WW I? 50's?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Phat, posted 03-07-2024 3:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Phat, posted 03-07-2024 8:19 AM Theodoric has replied

  
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