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Author | Topic: The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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quote: I didn’t ask for where the NT says it was fulfilled, since we’re talking about the historical Jesus you need to use the methods and standards of history. Good luck with that. Besides, I’d the NT is all you have you don’t have anything impressive at all. Perhaps your time would be better spent showing where archaeology deals with the creation of the universe?
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I didn’t ask for NT “fulfilment”. I asked for historical confirmation.
quote: The two stories have significant disagreements and implausible elements with no confirmation in any other source - not even each other. Likely they were invented based on this prophecy, and Jesus was born in Nazareth. (One example problem - Matthew has Jesus born prior to the reign of Herod Archelaus - 2:22 makes this plain. Luke has Jesus born during the census of Quirinius, after Archelaus was deposed 2:1-2).So, nothing incredible here. quote: Nothing about starting a ministry there. Indeed it seems to be predicting that Galilee will be incorporated into the Kingdom of Judah - and it seems to be very much rooted in the situation of the time of Isaiah as the preceding and following verses make clear. So, no, not impressive at all.
quote: It is completely unclear what you mean here. However, give that the Davidic line is lost, and there have been no kings of Judah at all for nearly 2000 years it’s really hard to call this one fulfilled (or specifically about Jesus who very likely was NOT of the line of David - the disagreements between Matthew and Luke give good reason to doubt both genealogies).
quote: There isn’t even a good reason to think that this is a prophecy.
quote: There is no reason to think that this is a prophecy at all.
quote: Definitely not a prophecy those are instructions given to Isaiah.
quote: That requires an interesting interpretation of Zechariah. Is Zechariah a betrayer ? He is the one paid 30 pieces of silver. And where is Jesus in it?
quote: Again, not a prophecy. So really this isn’t at all impressive. Even in the one case where you have an actual prophecy and an apparent fulfilment the fulfilment looks to be a fiction. Most aren’t even prophecies. The only impressive thing is that people somehow fall for this obvious nonsense.
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: None of these are prophecies.
quote: Which does not appear to have arrived. Jeremiah states that the new covenant will be with the people of Israel:
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 No longer shall they teach one another or say to each other, “Know the Lord,” for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and remember their sin no more.
Is that actually the case? (And please spare me the ridiculous Anglo-Israelite nonsense). Interestingly it states that Jerusalem would never be demolished - yet the Romans did demolish it after Jesus came. Jesus time on Earth did not see the fulfilment of that part of the prophecy either.
quote:Not a prophecy. quote: No, it doesn’t say that and it appears to be speaking of Isaiah’s time.
quote: Not prophecies.
quote: The actual prophecy is that the Assyrians would conquer Aram and Israel the birth of the child (not to a virgin) is a sign that that event would occur sometime in the next couple of years. Jesus was born centuries too late for that. So again not at all impressive. When do we get to see the good stuff?
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
candle2 alleges otherwise - making the same error ICANT did, of failing to understand the concept of the Historical Jesus.
And he has the same inability to make a rational case. Still, I think exposing this stuff as the nonsense it is has some value.
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: You want me to be genuinely stupid, then? Because that’s what it would take to actually believe this nonsense you’ve put out. I note that you can’t even answer even one of the points I made. You can’t even show that half of your ”fulfilled prophecies” even are prophecies! So despite all your arrogant bluster, you’ve got nothing.
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: Which is not at all relevant to anything I said. Though I suppose that I should point out that Christian apologists tend to exaggerate the number of references.
quote: None of that is historically established.
quote: I did say to spare me the Anglo Israelite nonsense. Just because you unthinkingly swallow 19th century crank ideas - without bothering to investigate them - doesn’t mean that they are any less laughable than the Book of Mormon.
quote: No, it does not. That was intended for Judah. And your racist ranting is quite definitely off-topic, and certainly nothing to do with fulfilled prophecy.
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: I guess you’re so used to people believing falsehoods that you can’t imagine anyone seeing through yours. You didn’t offer anything worthwhile in fulfilled prophecies.
quote: But we don’t have to get it right to match your fulfilled prophecies. We can pretend we did and make up stories after the fact to explain how you really went to whichever state we chose. Would you find that amazing? Or do you expect us to?
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PaulK Member Posts: 18056 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: Which says almost all we need to know. You can’t offer any serious defense of your claims. You just laugh at the truth.
quote: And this silly fantasy says the rest. Now how about you actually address the topic? Phat managed it. He even got it right. Which is more than you or ICANT have managed.
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