The Historical Jesus: Did He Create the Universe?

Moose doesn't comment much nor stir the waters, but he is a valued admin and one to respect.

We should have just stuck to the Title: Did Jesus Create The Universe? Thats a YES in my mind. This whole "Historical" mumbo jumbo is simply an attempt by satan and his minions to discredit the Bible.I think ICANT wanted to rope the skeptics in, but he then abandoned his efforts when the heat was turned up.

That's an Omni answer! I would rather see you guys being honest than convincing (or conned). God, if God exists will use many attempts to reach you. (Yes, it's my belief) No one will ever be able to say that they never knew or had a chance. Acceptance is free will as is rejection.

How do Dragonflies "communicate with you besides the objective evidence that you see?
This reminds me of a scripture. I want to emphasize that I do not want to believe in a God of wrath, nor do I believe that humans deserve to be treated like the Palestinians of Gaza or the Ukrainians under assault from Russia. You will hear a lot of doom-and-gloom sermons and preaching over the next few years, and it will reinforce your observations concerning Biblical Christians and their hypocrisy. I believe that much of the wrath of God will be directed more at the church and the state of Israel than it will towards non-believers. To purify a jewel or precious material, great heat is often required.Look, I don't want the world we live in to get worse and worse any more than any of you do. And to be fair, I'm not trying to get you to believe as I believe. All I am trying to do is share my perspective(s) at this forum that I have been a member of since 2003. My blood sugars are down lately and I have not gambled for several months. I still believe that really tough times are ahead for humanity, but I trust that it is a necessary part of the purification process. The Gold that I am talking about in this instance is each one of you. Each person in this world is unique. Each of us has a story and a history. Each of us thinks differently as well. When calibrating your map, I recommend incorporating data and evidence not just from facts, numbers, and equations but from the people whom you meet daily and who are part of your life. There are many trolls and many con artists, but occasionally you may find a jewel. May we all be jewels to each other rather than rocks.
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I am getting a chuckle reading some of his posts for the first time. I wonder what happened to him?

Really? State or National?AddbyEdit: I highly doubt he was of political mind! Message 12He was not stupid by any means. Just complicated.

Omni:

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This world can trace its roots to...

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This "world" means the people. A Universe can no more trace its origin than can a planet. We are talking people. Philosophically, can a "tree" trace its roots? Its origin? Metaphorically, the root is either matter or mind.
Jesus claims the origin. Science points towards the matter. Humanity and its collective "mind" oppose the idea of a divine mind. It's all mind over matter. If one does not mind, it does not matter! Intelligent Design would point to mind over matter, yet lack objective evidence.
Secular science objectively points towards matter (materialistic determinism) yet have no mind over their own brain matter.

Lemme guess! You were made out of star stuff? Silly materialist!

Mind over Matter makes more sense to me than Matter being eternal and evolving into Mind

I enjoyed those videos! Thanks for introducing me to Clint.Speaking of Clint...

quote:

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"As you get older, you're not afraid of doubt. Doubt isn't running the show. You take out all the self-agonizing.~Clint Eastwood

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Do you believe that Hell was created for humans?I don't.

Well she is the "mother" of Uranus..which explains the whole butt sniffing thing.

To reiterate: Historical Jesus

Wiki:

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The term "historical Jesus" refers to the life and teachings of Jesus as interpreted through critical historical methods, in contrast to what are traditionally religious interpretations It also considers the historical and cultural contexts in which Jesus lived. Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and the idea that Jesus was a mythical figure has been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory. Scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, with only two events being supported by nearly universal scholarly consensus: Jesus was baptized and Jesus was crucified.

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Based on this working definition, the "Historical Jesus" (was) widely considered to have once existed, been baptized,and was crucified. Thus the short answer is NO. The Jesus of Christian faith and belief was (and is) Gods eternal character. A Christian believes that God always existed and Trinitarians believe that Jesus (as human character) was in the beginning with the Father...long before the point in time where He was physically born.Thus we believe that the Jesus of Christian faith and tradition did initiate(create) the universe as we know it. Personally I believe that Jesus initiated matter as we know it. Beyond that simple belief, I'll let Cosmologists explain how the universe potentially evolved.

Without knowing Candles beliefs, I would guess that his answer to all of your questions is "after".. I don't think he really accepts the theory of a "Historical Jesus". (as I expounded on in my Wiki quote)As you ponder the wonder of the Sun being eclipsed by the moon and how the Sun itself is simply one of trillions of stars potentially existing, perhaps you can understand our (primitive) belief that matter was at one time initiated and did *not* always exist. I hope you and your wife have a relaxing yet exciting trip and that you feel better.

Well Tangle, I also hope that you get an opportunity to enjoy the solar eclipse in between your continued banter with (as you would phrase it) us nutters.