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Author Topic:   Forum: Christian Ideology
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 31 of 56 (91754)
03-11-2004 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Dan Carroll
03-11-2004 10:44 AM


Re: Syamsu on the run
quote:
Christ dying on the cross for sins, or Christ being redeemed on the cross for mankind
What a laywer trick. You are comparing ants and elephants reproducing. Comparisons are bad. Why not look at differential death on the cross? You chrisitian ideologists always ignore this. It is clearly underdeveloped. A guy I think I know read in a review of a Nganjuk travel brochure that this was true. I would look it up but I don't have time, in between doing laundry and cleaning my stomach with sterno, to be an intellectual. But you have not countered my field wide appraisal that christian ideology suppresses things and is responsible for the holocaust and FC Bayern having a crap season. Besides, all my evidence I posted in some thread somewhere and you never addressed it. You should all go away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-11-2004 10:44 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-11-2004 12:03 PM Mammuthus has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 56 (91755)
03-11-2004 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Mammuthus
03-11-2004 11:33 AM


Re: Syamsu on the run
Exactly what I would expect. Your empty vitriol contributes nothing.
This could have been an extremely interesting conversation about how right I am, but instead you have decided to do nothing but spew venom, asking me to "back up my claims" and "explain contradictions in what I say". Sometimes you've even outright claimed that I am wrong, in spite of my wild jumps in logic and complete non-sequiters that prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt.

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Mammuthus, posted 03-11-2004 11:33 AM Mammuthus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by MrHambre, posted 03-11-2004 12:36 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 33 of 56 (91758)
03-11-2004 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Dan Carroll
03-11-2004 12:03 PM


Your Cross to Bear
Ever go to the movies? Ever read a book? I'm pretty sure that the subject of "immorality associated with Christian theology" is on a hollywood shortlist of topical things to make the movie look interesting. When the gangsta says something like, "God dammit," or "raising the dead," with sometimes more direct and broader reference to "living by the sword and dying by the sword," like in the movie Mary Kate and Ashley, She-Wolves of the S.S.. Anytime the subject of "going straight to Hell" comes up in a movie, chances are high that Christian ideology would be referred to either explicitly or implicitly but still clear, and most always it is noted as the morality of crooks. Actually if I remember correctly The Passion presents Christian ideology as a sadomasochistic perversion, but I think I wandered into some Gwyneth Paltrow movie by mistake. What point was I trying to make? It'll come back to me.
Again you must have heared the reference to "Christ on a bike" a thousand times in movies and tv this way, and maybe even a few times with people you know. Back in the early days of Christianity the phrase might have been seen as denoting progress and good things.
regards,
Esteban Nor Hambre

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-11-2004 12:03 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 03-17-2004 12:55 AM MrHambre has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 34 of 56 (91761)
03-11-2004 1:03 PM


String of dubious humor? - Closing topic
Mammuthus, MrHambre, and Dan Carroll - Aren't you the three that followed up on Darwin's Terrier's ill placed "humor", at that other topic. Are you doing something simular in this topic?
Closing it down.
Adminnemooseus
{Edited to add subtitle}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-11-2004]

Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
too fast closure of threads

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 35 of 56 (92127)
03-12-2004 9:02 PM


Let the satire resume - Now let's see what happens
Message 164, of "Change in Moderation?", from Mr. Bound:
quote:
Hey, it's me, I started the Forum:Christian Ideology thread. Yes, this thread was meant to be a satire. With a purpose. That purpose being to show that Syamsu's request for a forum regarding Darwinian Ideology was laughable and irrelevant. It's no great secret that Evolution was used in politics to justify atrocities. Just as it's no secret that religion, including in particular Christianity, was used by politics to commit atrocities. Neither side generally denies these facts, yet neither believe them to affect the debate 'Evolution vs. Creation'. So, I decided if Syamsu was pressing for a forum that could only be used to point the finger of moral blame at the Theory of Evolution, then it should be only fair that I pressed for a forum to justifiably point the same finger at Christianity. However, you deleted my thread and not his. I would like to know why.
Topic was never deleted, only closed.
You seem to think that another topic that "rises to Syamsu's level of stupidity" is something that is needed. Go nuts.
Adminnemooseus
ps: More discussion of the matter precedes message 164, cited above.

Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
too fast closure of threads

Replies to this message:
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Mr. Bound
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 56 (92290)
03-13-2004 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Adminnemooseus
03-12-2004 9:02 PM


Re: Let the satire resume - Now let's see what happens
Or you could re-close this thread, close the Forumarwinian Ideology thread, and everyone (with the possible exception of Syamsu) could get over it and get on with something a little more productive instead. That was my original intention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-12-2004 9:02 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 37 of 56 (92863)
03-17-2004 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by MrHambre
03-11-2004 12:36 PM


Your satire to bear
I agree completely that the acts you listed were horrific acts in the name of Christianity. HOWEVER, you yourself admitted you have not read the Bible yourself, meanwhile you harp on people for saying things about things they haven't read.
I think you'd better practice what you preach, junior. Since you haven't read the Bible I can assure you it didn't say 'Go kill those Jews, they're just trouble'. Did it say you could only be saved through Christ? Yeah, but it NEVER says 'purge the nonbelievers'.
People did lots of terrible stuff in the name of Carl Marx's ideas about communism, except when you compare their acts to his ideals you'll notice the offenders twist the idea until the meaning is changed. That's the same thing with violent acts in the name of Christianity. Go ahead and blame the people who did that, but don't blame Christianity for the unorthodox and uncalled for violence done in the name of it.

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by MrHambre, posted 03-11-2004 12:36 PM MrHambre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by MrHambre, posted 03-17-2004 12:35 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 38 of 56 (92919)
03-17-2004 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by One_Charred_Wing
03-17-2004 12:55 AM


There's Nothing Funny About Satire
Born2Preach,
You and I and every sane person on this board realizes how easy it is to assert something, dredge up some info that seems to back up the claim, then stick to your story. This is what Syamsu has done since showing up here. Any realistic debater accepts when evidence contradicts his claim. The realistic debater recognizes the authority and expertise of others in a field in which his contact may only be through watered-down popular literature. The realistic debater, in short, can admit that there's a possibility he's wrong.
Syamsu isn't content to say that the Nazis appropriated Darwinian terminology in an attempt to lend scientific legitimacy to their cruelty. He's not merely stating that prominent German scientists aided and abetted the Nazi cause. Instead, he has made the claim that Darwinian evolutionary theory is essentially indistinguishable from Nazism. If this claim were true, we should not be able to find any literature that makes use of Darwinian theory that does not also advocate genocide. If this claim were true, every one of us here (and elsewhere) who accept the validity of Darwinian evolution should also advocate racist policies and eugenic programs. Most importantly, if this claim were not true, the evidence that he has overstated his case should be obvious and persuasive to anyone possessed of reason.
Syamsu doesn't listen to reason. He assumes that attempts to defend supporters of Darwin's theory from charges of racism are in fact ploys to whitewash the Nazi atrocities. Many here have proposed rational arguments that make crucial distinctions between the theory of evolution by natural selection and its misuse by racists. Just as many have asserted that the early Darwinists (as well as Darwin himself) harbored prejudices that we don't feel obligated either to share or to include as essential aspects of Darwin's ToE. All of these patient, intelligent arguments have been ignored without exception by Syamsu, who (though it's doubtful he even understands the distinctions) routinely dismisses them as 'drivel' and 'nonsense.' When presented with primary scientific literature that is demonstrably free from the racism he asserts is the core component of Darwinism, he closes his eyes. Upon being supplied with passages from books he himself has quoted as supporting his claims, he changes the subject. There is literally no way to persuade him that he is mistaken in his blanket condemnation of all Darwinists as Nazis.
I don't deplore the closing of this thread. It's juvenile, obvious humor, but I think the irony has a point. Anyone could play Syamsu's game, and all we've done is substitute Christianity as the suspect ideology. I could just as easily come up with quotes from Hitler that talk about God and Christ, and assert that Christianity is the same as Nazism. I could point to historical atrocities that were committed in the name of Jesus, and assert that this supports the validity of my argument that Christianity is a genocidal concept. When anyone presents evidence of Jesus's message of love and tolerance in the Bible, or points out that the vast majority of Christians do not advocate racism, I could dismiss them as spouting garbage and tell them to go away. And people would have every right to be outraged at my inability to debate them rationally and politely, or to admit when my opinion is based on my own prejudices and not on an objective assessment of the evidence at hand.
regards,
Esteban "Satire Satyr" Hambre

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 03-17-2004 12:55 AM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 03-17-2004 10:12 PM MrHambre has not replied
 Message 40 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 03-17-2004 10:15 PM MrHambre has not replied
 Message 43 by Syamsu, posted 03-20-2004 11:40 AM MrHambre has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 39 of 56 (93035)
03-17-2004 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by MrHambre
03-17-2004 12:35 PM


Re: There's Nothing Funny About Satire
Okay, so we agree that the doctrine/code of conduct etc. cannot be blamed for what people do in its misuse. That was my main point.
As for me stepping in kind of harshly about your jeers, I guess I don't know Syamsu well enough to know if he deserved it or not. I just noted 'haven't read' part, but oh well. But if your accusations to him were true, then I've got nothing to argue with you about and your humor, if in fact used on someone who has brought it on himself, is by no means a reason to shut the thread down by my opinion.

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by MrHambre, posted 03-17-2004 12:35 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6155 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 40 of 56 (93037)
03-17-2004 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by MrHambre
03-17-2004 12:35 PM


Re: There's Nothing Funny About Satire
Just one thing though: How is the clock on your post over 2 hours ahead of mine? I thought we all were set on US central time?
Maybe it was from the future...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by MrHambre, posted 03-17-2004 12:35 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 56 (93051)
03-17-2004 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Syamsu
03-10-2004 2:06 AM


I like your style, Syamysu.

The earth is flat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Syamsu, posted 03-10-2004 2:06 AM Syamsu has not replied

  
Mr. Bound
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 56 (93415)
03-19-2004 6:56 PM


Admin, can we all forget about this? Humans and their politics will use anything to form ideologies. What they use is irrelevant. With the exception of education, none of this needs discussing at this site. Please close this thread and Syamsu's Darwinist ideology thread. Again I state that this was my original intention.

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 43 of 56 (93496)
03-20-2004 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by MrHambre
03-17-2004 12:35 PM


Re: There's Nothing Funny About Satire
Mr Hambre:
"he has made the claim that Darwinian evolutionary theory is essentially indistinguishable from Nazism."
It's just in your fantasy, I never made such a claim.
"Many here have proposed rational arguments that make crucial distinctions between the theory of evolution by natural selection and its misuse by racists."
As I argue, the theory is faulty, and the fault tends to support Social Darwinism. Many evolutionists have argued the same thing about Spencer's formulation "survival of the fittest", that it is faulty and that the fault tends to support Social Darwinism. The only difference is that I argue it with Natural Selection theory in general.
"All of these patient, intelligent arguments have been ignored without exception by Syamsu,"
I have never seen any patient, intelligent argument about the relationship between Nazism and Darwinism on these forums. There's always some joker who wants to impose some opinion and then end all patient, and intelligent argument about it.
Mainly Nazism is the suspect ideology, but apparently you wouldn't want investigation into Nazism either, by your logic. By your logic ideology play no role whatsoever, you have a completely untennable position. You've got the tone right of rational argument, it's a pity that your actual argument doesn't make sense.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by MrHambre, posted 03-17-2004 12:35 PM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-21-2004 7:55 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Mr. Bound
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 56 (93738)
03-21-2004 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Syamsu
03-20-2004 11:40 AM


Re: There's Nothing Funny About Satire
So what the fuck's you're point then Syamsu? Sum it up in one concise sentence. Otherwise get the fuck off my thread. Sorry to get a bit shirty, but all you do is spout irrelevant crap which goes nowhere. You got one, that's right one, sentence to make your point. If you can't then I for one ain't interested. C'mon put your balls on the line and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Syamsu, posted 03-20-2004 11:40 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Syamsu, posted 03-22-2004 4:12 AM Mr. Bound has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 45 of 56 (93802)
03-22-2004 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Mr. Bound
03-21-2004 7:55 PM


Re: There's Nothing Funny About Satire
I see that you're just another joker. Just don't argue about things you neither have the patience or intelligence to argue about.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-21-2004 7:55 PM Mr. Bound has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-22-2004 1:44 PM Syamsu has replied

  
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