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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
Tangle
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Posts: 9616
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 420 of 563 (915871)
02-19-2024 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Granny Magda
02-19-2024 11:49 AM


Re: Boyz In The Hood
Granny Madge writes:
In principle sure, but in practice...
It's in practice that matters
I recently saw someone complaining that we don't have Jesus' DNA. They were super belligerent about it too. That is not a reasonable demand for evidence.
That depends on the context, if he was demanding it from the Turin Shroud then maybe it would be reasonable.
Not that it would prove anything - except that it's the DNA of a man. I'm not sure what the DNA of a God would look like.
Demanding evidence for for a proposition is not valid where the specific evidence demanded is not a prediction of that proposition.
What's wrong with demanding evidence of Jesus' existence? It's how we decide whether things exist or not. The fact that it's missing or very weak is unfortunate for your case but there it is.The fact that we might expect there to be little to no evidence given the circumstances isn't our problem. Without the evidence, how can we know?
I think that PaulK and I would just like to see some clarification on what exactly is being demanded here. Is it evidence we might reasonably be expected to have or is it. well, y'know
We'd like to see much better evidence than there is in order to conclude 'yes probably', otherwise, well y'know...
Wouldn't it be nice to see a record of the crucifixion that I'm sure some bureaucrat would have made? How about some writings from the man himself? Or even some contemporaneous writing from his followers who had actually met him? Or just a few notes from a historian of the time following a guy who was making a bit of a disturbance in the Temple, speaking on mounds and drawing crowds that was so annoying to the authorities that they killed him. We can speculate forever, but if it ever existed we don't have it so we're left with a guess.
Just to be clear, my position isn't that there is absolutely nothing, I just think that what we do have is far too weak to be useful.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Granny Magda, posted 02-19-2024 11:49 AM Granny Magda has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9616
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 552 of 563 (917653)
04-12-2024 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by LamarkNewAge
04-12-2024 11:45 AM


Re: The Historical Jesus is full of questions and disagreement among experts.
Um, who cares exactly?
I mean those that believe in the miraculous Christ do so without a shred of evidence and those that don't are able to say 'forget evidence for the miraculous Christ you haven't got any, you can't even provide halfway-decent evidence that the guy even existed at all'.
All those pious theologians over all those years dedicating their lives trying to show that a fictitious character in a 2,000 year old myth existed - all have failed. You'd think they'd take up train spotting or something equally useless.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 11:45 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-12-2024 12:28 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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