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Author Topic:   The Salesmen of the Green New Deal
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(2)
Message 46 of 181 (919342)
07-07-2024 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 3:06 PM


USA 1776 writes in Message 43:
You are right in inferring that "greenhouse gas emissions" have not been mentioned in reference to CFC's lately, because CFC's, tried, charged and banned years ago, are simply one of many things implicated.
That's because science doesn't consider CFCs as green house gas emissions and if they were referred as such in the scientific literature it is an error.
In fact, I was not the one to first mention them. The user with the dragonfly beside her account name was the one that mentioned them.
Yep, I pointed out that for some obscure reason you were pretending they were a secret. And now you are trying to pretend that the ozone hole and CFCs are the same as greenhouse gases and global warming and you are incorrect.
"Greenhouse gas emissions", "global warming", etc. are simply the terms used to describe the imagined results of continuing to use them.
This is also incorrect and the supporting evidence is clear that additional CO2 in the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels and leaking methane from wells is causing the planet to warm and is acidifying our oceans.
You are trying to spread bullshit to a bunch of science nerds who know it's bullshit. The question is why you feel the need to post your bizarre bullshit here at EvC?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 3:06 PM USA 1776 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 8:58 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 47 of 181 (919345)
07-07-2024 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 3:06 PM


Source? Reference? Troll?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 3:06 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 48 of 181 (919346)
07-07-2024 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 3:31 PM


Are you going to respond to any of the questions presented to you?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 3:31 PM USA 1776 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-07-2024 7:59 PM Theodoric has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 49 of 181 (919347)
07-07-2024 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 3:31 PM


LEARN THE BASICS
Stop being a typical Christian Cult of Ignorance example.
First the ozone issue was and is totally unrelated to the problem of Global Warming.
Scientists noticed a long term trend that accelerated as we adopted burning more fossil fuels.
Note: observation over time.
The question of what that humans produce in quantity and release in to atmosphere could account for the trend was investigated and carbon dioxide and methane were identified as likely.
Note: experiment, tests, actual data.
Samples were taken at many altitudes world wide and a correlation between methane and carbon dioxide rates over higher industrial countries and the percentages reaching the upper altitudes was established.
Note: experiment, tests, actual data.
Wind patterns and historical records correlated to the data from the field.
Note: experiment, tests, actual data.
You have to be dumber than a red brick to not see how this works and how it is tested.
What would increased global warming mean for humans?
Again, studies and tests and historical records all said "Nothing Good".
Monitoring world wide continued to confirm Global Warming.
Many nations are attempting to reduce the coming effects but thanks to willful ignorant folks like you may not succeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 3:31 PM USA 1776 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 10:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 181 (919348)
07-07-2024 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 3:31 PM


More and important basics. How science works; 101 level.
How science works.
First, someone makes and observation and asks others if they see the same thing. If yes then next step, if no, the observation put into the interesting box.
If yes then there are three steps:
publish the observation:
propose a cause for the observation:
test the proposed cause and try to falsify it: Note: science is based on falsifying, only when it cannot be falsified then move on.
if cause is falsified, propose another cause and try to falsify it.
Science works and has worked because it strongest tool is doubt and the active attempt to discredit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 3:31 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 51 of 181 (919349)
07-07-2024 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Theodoric
07-07-2024 4:56 PM


It seems unlikely.
The bizarre thing is coming in here spoiling for a fight about something that really hasn't been an issue for 25 years.
And how could he be completely unaware of the past 30 years of climate science data, collected in multiple disciplines?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2024 4:56 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 07-07-2024 8:26 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 74 by Theodoric, posted 07-08-2024 12:37 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 52 of 181 (919350)
07-07-2024 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Tanypteryx
07-07-2024 7:59 PM


There are only three ways; by being educated in a Christian Cult of Ignorance School or willful ignorance or simply a liar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-07-2024 7:59 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 53 of 181 (919351)
07-07-2024 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Theodoric
07-07-2024 11:36 AM


Re: Be nice
Science over time changes, but the facts do not. Hugh Ellsaesser made statements about nature that were true when he said it, and are true now. Calling him names or saying that he wasn't an expert does not change that reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2024 11:36 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 07-07-2024 8:43 PM USA 1776 has replied
 Message 75 by Theodoric, posted 07-08-2024 12:39 AM USA 1776 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 54 of 181 (919352)
07-07-2024 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 8:39 PM


Re: Be nice
Of course facts change and change constantly. That's why research continues and long established beliefs get overturned.
Stop being willfully ignorant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 8:39 PM USA 1776 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 9:01 PM jar has replied

  
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 55 of 181 (919353)
07-07-2024 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Tanypteryx
07-07-2024 3:43 PM


CFC's and "greenhouse gas emissions" are both taken together in the eyes of the environmental movement in their alleged threat to the ozone, and in the alleged result: Global Warming. The difference is that one has not been mentioned lately, and the other has.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-07-2024 3:43 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 07-07-2024 9:01 PM USA 1776 has not replied
 Message 62 by nwr, posted 07-07-2024 9:39 PM USA 1776 has replied
 Message 63 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-07-2024 9:47 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 56 of 181 (919354)
07-07-2024 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
07-07-2024 8:43 PM


Re: Be nice
Facts do not change. Consensus, scientific thesis and opinions are what change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 07-07-2024 8:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 07-07-2024 9:16 PM USA 1776 has not replied
 Message 89 by Taq, posted 07-08-2024 12:48 PM USA 1776 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 181 (919355)
07-07-2024 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 8:58 PM


Again. you are simple repeating obvious falsehoods. The evidence is clear that the science identified a whole different sets of gases that are causing global climate warming.
You are an embarrassment to Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 8:58 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23135
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 58 of 181 (919356)
07-07-2024 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 3:06 PM


USA 1776 writes in Message 43:
The ozone depletion theory is behind much of the restrictions and changes that have been sold as "environmental protection".
It seems a pretty safe bet that you're confusing ozone depletion with global warming. They're separate topics. The main threat of a thinning ozone layer is not to the environment but to human health, such as skin cancer, cataracts, respiratory effects of increased ground level ozone and higher levels of vitamin D. There are similar effects on animals. Crops have limited ability to adopt to increased levels of UV light, as do plants in general. See Ozone Depletion Effects, a link I also posted earlier.
You are right in inferring that "greenhouse gas emissions" have not been mentioned in reference to CFC's lately, because CFC's, tried, charged and banned years ago, are simply one of many things implicated.
Just to make sure that an important distinction is clear, CFC's are a greenhouse gas because their presence in the atmosphere can trap heat and make the planet warmer, but this is rarely mentioned these days because they were banned under the Montreal Protocols because they cause ozone depletion.
The Green New Deal is simply a continuation/the latest version of the environmental movement of the past 30-35 years,...
Again, the Green New Deal was a House resolution that failed to pass. Why do you keep blaming it for anything?
... and its negative campaign/restrictions against chlorine, fossil fuels, carbon, methane, etc. is all rooted in the Rowland Molina ozone theory.
What is the "Rowland Molina ozone theory"?
"Greenhouse gas emissions", "global warming", etc. are simply the terms used to describe the alleged results of continuing to use them.
Ozone depletion is a separate effect from global warming.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 3:06 PM USA 1776 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 9:25 PM Percy has replied

  
USA 1776
Junior Member (Idle past 208 days)
Posts: 29
From: United States
Joined: 07-02-2024


Message 59 of 181 (919357)
07-07-2024 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tanypteryx
07-06-2024 9:56 PM


"Why are you upset about something that was solved 25+ years ago?"
What problem do you consider to be solved?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-06-2024 9:56 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-07-2024 9:53 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 155 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 60 of 181 (919358)
07-07-2024 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by USA 1776
07-07-2024 9:01 PM


Re: Be nice
Liar Liar Pants on fire.
Facts do change.
Once there was a fact that the earth was 6000 years old.
We know know that fact was wrong.
Once there was a fact that there had been a worldwide flood while humans lived.
We know know that fact was false.
The list of refuted facts is endless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by USA 1776, posted 07-07-2024 9:01 PM USA 1776 has not replied

  
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