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Author | Topic: Contradictions: Hint that Genesis 1 and 2 are Allegorical | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8656 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
But I won't try and define where the Bible *should* fit in any bookstore. It should go in that big green bin out back.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Really? The Bible is not in the fantasy section, however. Remember the good ole Dewey Decimal System?
Bible 221-229 Classical (Greek & Roman) religion 292 Germanic religion 293 Religions of Indic origin 294 Zoroastrianism (Mazdaism, Parseeism) 295 Judaism 296 Islam, Babism, Bahai Faith 297 New Age religions and other 299 Or maybe you prefer the Library of Congress classification system:
BL - Religions. Mythology. Rationalism BM - Judaism BP - Islam. Baháʼísm. Theosophy, etc. BQ - Buddhism BS - Bible "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Who created fire? I suppose that some wag somewhere will attempt to blame God for global warming."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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Phat Member Posts: 18656 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Fire was never a problem for anything until humans evolved enough to abuse it and make gunpowder, etc. If you birthed a kid who turned out destructive despite your best efforts of parenting, should we blame you?
And don't give me that old canard that God by definition should be responsible for fixing everything that inconveniences or hurts humans. Humans manage to hurt/kill themselves. And it is we who have managed to accelerate global warming into a possible genocidal event. God may or may not exist but there will again come a time when many people will pray that He does. Watch us botch our financial system next. It's already happening. AddbyEdit: The "Dusty Old Book" mentions that there will come a time when people cannot buy nor sell without the mark. It is beginning to look like this will play out in some form. Perhaps we need to dust off that book and reread it. Edited by Phat, : added comment"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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You really need to learn to read Phat. It's pitiful how little reading comprehension it seems you can muster.
Phat writes: The "Dusty Old Book" mentions that there will come a time when people cannot buy nor sell without the mark. It is beginning to look like this will play out in some form. Perhaps we need to dust off that book and reread it. Please provide even one conceivable way that nonsense could come to pass?My Website: My Website
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8656 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
If you birthed a kid who turned out destructive despite your best efforts of parenting, should we blame you? If you are an all powerful all knowing all everything god and your kid is the entire universe then yeah you're to blame. And frankly if this is his best efforts of parenting then Cruelty, Pain and Evil for Dummies was his parental guide. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 672 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Who created humans?
Fire was never a problem for anything until humans evolved enough to abuse it and make gunpowder, etc. Phat writes:
You're fond of the catch-phrase, "creator of all things seen and unseen" - but you clearly don't believe it. You're constantly adding to the list of things your god didn't create. If you birthed a kid who turned out destructive despite your best efforts of parenting, should we blame you? The answer is still the same: If you create an attractive nuisance, yes, yes, yes, you ARE responsible for the harm done by it. Whether it's a tiger trap or fire, yes, yes, yes, the creator is responsible. The answer will always be the same, so you can stop asking the question. Yes, yes, yes, the creator is responsible.
Phat writes:
Not "should be". Is. It's not a canard. It's an obvious truth. If you think it's a canard, SHOW how it is.
And don't give me that old canard that God by definition should be responsible for fixing everything that inconveniences or hurts humans. Phat writes:
That time has already come, many times. People have been praying to gods for help ever since the first shaman made up the idea of gods. Sometimes people even convince themselves that the gods have answered their prayers. God may or may not exist but there will again come a time when many people will pray that He does."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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Mah Fallon Junior Member (Idle past 112 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
Whete did Cain get a wife from?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8656 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
It's all fake. The story isn't real. It doesn't matter where a fictitious wife for some fictitious character came from. Make up anything. It all fits. Maybe the boy was gay.
“There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion,” -Daniel Dennett Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Whete did Cain get a wife from? As AZPaul3 says in Message 114, it's just a story! That said, generations of fan-boys have argued with each other over their elaborate attempts to rationalize away gaping plot holes like Cain's wife (eg, if ENS Chekov didn't appear on Star Trek until the second season, well after Khan's first-season episode (Space Seed), then how did Khan recognize him in the movie, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan?). Part of the rationalization (though not necessarily to explain away Cain's wife) is the question of whether all races derive from a common human ancestor (monogenism or "monogenesis") or are the result of separate creations (polygenism or "polygenesis"). Monogenism is the logical consequence and prevailing view of evolution, whereas polygenism has been used to justify racism (including institutionalized racism in Nazi Germany and in the American South). Actually, I first encountered polygenism on a webpage that examined Nazi books on their Rassentheorie ("Race Theory"). The idea was that Aryans were the true humans descended from Adam, whereas the Untermenschen ("sub-humans") were the result of a separate (and implicitly inferior) creation which necessitated maintaining the purity of the blood by preventing intermarriage. I next encountered the exact same ideas in connection with American racism. While that may seem to be a coincidence, there is a very good reason. While Nazi anti-Semitism had a long tradition, the Germans had no experience in creating laws to institutionalize racism, outside of traditional sequestering in ghettos which had been done away with a century earlier when the Spanish Inquisition and Constantinian Law (term I have only heard used by my Rabbinic Lit professor, a rabbi, for the body of Roman law in effect in Europe from the 4th century to the mid-19th century that included isolating the Jews and making it a capital crime for a Christian to convert to another religion). For inspiration, the Nazis chose to learn from the experts in institutionalized racism, the USA (especially our Jim Crow laws, but also the highly popular Eugenics Movement). Thus the parallels between Nazi and American racism should be no surprise, since they had copied the ideas from us. BTW, it was in a presentation by former NCSE Executive Director Dr. Eugenie Scott that I learned the terminology for those ideas: monogenesis and polygenesis. Basically, the difference between the two ideas is that monogenesis says that we humans are all basically the same, of the same kind, whereas polygenesis says that we are of different and separate kinds. Despite creationism's attempts to blame racism on evolution, the reality is that racism is based on creationism. Knowing the necessary keywords is essential to a successful Internet search. If you follow that link to polygenism/polygenesis you will see discussions of attempts to rationalize the Bible:
quote: Sections discussing those ideas follow. Pre-Adamism is basically the idea that there were already races of humans living before the creation of Adam. Co-Adamism says that there was more than one Adam – small groups of men, created at the same time in different places across the Earth – and therefore that the different races were separately created. We saw that in Inherit the Wind which was a fictionalized account of the infamous Scopes Trial when the Clarence Darrow character asks the William Jennings Bryan character where Cain got his wife from, suggesting (quoting from memory) : "Do you think maybe God performed another creation over in the next county?" In addition, there was the 1966 blockbuster movie, The Bible: In the Beginning. In their account of the Cain & Abel story, Cain receives the Mark and flees, finds a wife (no explanation), and produces descendants who are still with us today (my emphasis added in the following quote):
The Bible In the Beginning: The movie depicts Cain's descendants as black Africans (stock film clip used in the movie showed two native African women, apparently Ubangi or giraffe women, as I seem to recall -- in accessing that image in my memory from 1966, the only time I had watched that movie, I can see the two women sitting and basically what they were doing but cannot quite resolve the lip or neck details with any degree of reliability), reflecting a religious belief (I forget from which denominations) which I have heard several times over my seven decades that black skin is the Mark of Cain:
Wikipedia: Unfortunately, that opened up one helluva a festering cesspool. Nonetheless, hopefully that gives you some leads and search keywords to aid in your research on this question. Though I feel that I must remind you once more: It is just a story!
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