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Author
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Topic: Phat Unplugged
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.1
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Message 511 of 523 (920420)
10-07-2024 4:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
10-07-2024 8:16 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
Phat writes in Message 507: Tany writes: Please tell us the value of an ounce of gold. I can only tell you one thing with any confidance. The gold will never become worthless. The dollar might. So your confidence isn't strong enough to explain what gives gold value? It is interesting that everyone who gives gold a value number, the number is always listed in a fiat currency. Gold has a number of characteristics that make it a very useful, but you are claiming that there is something absolutely unique and UNDESCRIBABLE about a gold bar stacked in a vault that gives it value? Once again, WHAT GIVES GOLD INTRINSIC VALUE?
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 507 by Phat, posted 10-07-2024 8:16 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10304 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 7.3
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Message 512 of 523 (920440)
10-08-2024 3:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 506 by Phat
10-07-2024 7:54 AM
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Re: Right wing grift continues
Phat writes: As of this morning, Gold is at 2,675.30. That's $1000.00 more than you say. And the forecast is for that to continue going up. That seems to be opposite of what you should want. You seem to think gold is better than fiat currency, so you should be hoping for prices to go down so you can buy more gold with the same amount of fiat currency. After you buy the gold, you shouldn't be worried about its price at all because you wouldn't ever trade that more valuable gold for the less value fiat currency, right? You also have to ask why people would be so willing to trade their gold for your fiat currency.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 506 by Phat, posted 10-07-2024 7:54 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.4
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
Ask the Central Banks why they even bother holding it. Barbarous Relic indeed!
WHAT GIVES GOLD INTRINSIC VALUE? humans will once the Threat of a currency reset occurs. Gold does not ever replace fiat. Gold transcends it. Try that with a digital blockchain!!
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.3
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Message 514 of 523 (920449)
10-09-2024 7:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
10-09-2024 7:10 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
So your answer is word salad. You have no idea what you are even saying.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 515 of 523 (920450)
10-09-2024 8:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
10-09-2024 7:10 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
You've been asked this question over and over and never answer: how is a mere $23 trillion in gold going to back currency and asset values ten to twenty times greater? --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 9.1
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Message 516 of 523 (920451)
10-09-2024 10:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
10-09-2024 7:10 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
WHAT?
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10304 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 7.3
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Message 517 of 523 (920464)
10-09-2024 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
10-09-2024 7:10 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
Phat writes: Gold does not ever replace fiat. Gold transcends it. Gold is just some shiny stuff that people arbitrarily decided has value. It's as much a fiat currency as anything else.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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xongsmith
Member Posts: 2620 From: massachusetts US Joined: 01-01-2009
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Message 518 of 523 (920467)
10-09-2024 1:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 517 by Taq
10-09-2024 1:09 PM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
actually gold has chemical properties that make it the best for certain space craft parts.
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 517 by Taq, posted 10-09-2024 1:09 PM | | Taq has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 519 by Percy, posted 10-09-2024 4:47 PM | | xongsmith has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 7.1
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
I've probably told this story before, but anyway, gold is an excellent conductor, and back in the days when computers were built from discrete logic chips soldered to printed the circuit boards (PCBs) that plugged into a backplane, the pins of PCBs were usually coated with gold so that they made optimum electrical contact. Digital Equipment Corporation's (DEC) printed circuit board repair operation was located in Building 1 along side the Mill Pond. If a circuit board came back from the field too many times or proved too difficult to repair then out a window it went, right into the Mill Pond. In 1978 DEC was cited by the EPA for pollution of the Assabet River. The pollutant? Gold. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 518 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2024 1:14 PM | | xongsmith has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.3
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Message 520 of 523 (920475)
10-09-2024 10:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
10-09-2024 7:10 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
Still waiting to see how we would have gold back our currency. You complained that the government at one time controlled the price of gold. How do we have a market for gold if the value of the dollar is tied to gold that fluctuates in price? How is the value of gold determined if the US dollar is tied to it? Will we all need a dollar to gold converter? Have you thought this through? Do you even understand the questions?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.3
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Message 521 of 523 (920476)
10-10-2024 4:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 513 by Phat
10-09-2024 7:10 AM
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Re: Value, Worth, and Security
Here is a perfect explanation why a gold backed currency is not just undoable, but stupid too. No country can control the price of gold (or any other commodity). Therefore, the country would have no control over its currency or economy. If the country pegs their currency to an amount, that peg is subject to change at anytime by the central bank and state. Thus it would still be a fiat currency with the hassle of an artificial tie to gold.
quote:
Simply put, there is no way to back a reserve currency or a fractional reserve banking system with gold. It's easy to say that a world with very little credit would be a good world, but it would be a world with limited debt-based consumption, i.e., a world with little "growth." And without "growth," the system implodes.
The Problem With Gold-Backed Currencies ABE Please ask for clarification on the parts you don't understand.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Phat, posted 10-09-2024 7:10 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 6.7
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Message 522 of 523 (920477)
10-10-2024 5:11 PM
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The entirety of the gold that the world has ever refined is a fraction of the world's current money supply. But that's not actually all the problem. Only 17% of that fraction is held by banks. The rest is held privately - about 47% is jewellery, 22% is gold in coins and bars held as investments and 10% in electronics. Kind of difficult to underpin a State's economy with gold rings on private fingers.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 523 by xongsmith, posted 10-10-2024 11:58 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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xongsmith
Member Posts: 2620 From: massachusetts US Joined: 01-01-2009
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Message 523 of 523 (920478)
10-10-2024 11:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 522 by Tangle
10-10-2024 5:11 PM
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goldfinger
Tangle concludes:
Kind of difficult to underpin a State's economy with gold rings on private fingers. Phat . . . he loves only gold.....
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 522 by Tangle, posted 10-10-2024 5:11 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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