Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 49 (9215 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: Cifa.ac
Post Volume: Total: 920,175 Year: 497/6,935 Month: 497/275 Week: 14/200 Day: 8/6 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 4 of 332 (920653)
11-06-2024 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-06-2024 6:37 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Percy writes:
The situation for illegal immigrants will become more dire, both for those trying to enter the country and those already in the country. Businesses that "employ" (exploit) immigrants, whether legal or illegal, will have a harder time finding workers, especially agriculture.
Living in a rural state, I find this one to be the most intriguing. I will be interested to see what happens when Trump's rhetoric runs into the real world. How will his rural base react to not having enough workers come harvest time, or having to pay much higher wages.
I will also be curious to see what happens when Trump learns who actually pays tariffs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-06-2024 6:37 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-06-2024 12:13 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(2)
Message 7 of 332 (920657)
11-06-2024 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
11-06-2024 12:13 PM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Phat writes:
I learned about it from you. Surely he has to know.
Assuming Trump does know: This opens a Pandora's box of different conclusions. Did he lie about how tariffs work because he never thought he would actually win? Does he plan on continuing the lie and put tariffs in place? Did he never have any intention of putting tariffs on all imports, but just said it to win votes?
Assuming Trump doesn't know: Whiskey tango foxtrot.
Added in edit:
Trump claimed we could replace income tax with tariffs. Just to put some numbers on this:
2023 revenue from income tax = 2.18 T
2023 imported goods = 3.83 T
average tariff needed = 57%

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-06-2024 12:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Zucadragon, posted 11-07-2024 5:43 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 19 of 332 (920683)
11-08-2024 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
11-08-2024 12:19 AM


Re: Trump Has a Mandate
Rahvin writes:
Important to remember that he has a mandate among those who voted.

He does not represent or have the support of a majority of Americans.

Something like 40% of eligible voters didn't show up at all.
I get what you are saying, but that is never how mandates have been defined in the past. If you don't vote then you are tacitly handing your decision to those who do vote. It's the democratic version of the wedding phrase, "Speak now or forever hold your peace."
Trump has as much of a mandate as any prior president who was elected by the same majority of popular votes. It sickens me to say that, but it's the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 11-08-2024 12:19 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 42 of 332 (920722)
11-12-2024 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
11-09-2024 3:15 PM


Re: Another Step Back
Phat writes:
No one disagrees with the fact that Democrats in general are better educated than Republicans. Many Republicans are CEO's and business leaders. Much of the base is small business owners, many of whom never finished college. According to wiki, elitism as a group favors pluralism as a political ideal.
I think you have the cart before the horse. College educated whites tend to vote more for Democrats right now. It wasn't always like this:
quote:
George H.W. Bush won just 45 percent of Whites without a college degree who voted for one of the two major parties in 1992; Donald Trump won 65 percent in 2020. But Bush won college-educated Whites by four points while Trump lost them by 15 in the two-party vote share.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...-electorate-diploma-divide
Much has changed in the last 30 years since HW Bush served his first and only term. If I were to guess about these shifts in the electorate I think some of it has to do with how quickly our society has changed (e.g. gay marriage, increasing minority populations). College educated whites will tend to be more accepting of people who are outside of the norm (i.e. white and straight), and I think that is part of the explanation. The word spoken out loud is "illegal immigration", but I think it is more about an increase in minority populations and the threatening of white privilege for many Trump voters. As to why Trump got more of the Latino vote than in years past, I think that ties into culture war stuff due to higher religiosity in the Latino population.
I don't see either party wanting to shrink government. What I think needs to happen is that Trump and the Republicans are given all the rope they want. Democrats should largely get out of their way and let them do what they want. It is only then that we can start to get back on the path towards sanity once people see what Republican policies are actually like. For example, our economy would absolutely collapse if we deported all of the illegal migrants.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 11-09-2024 3:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 43 of 332 (920723)
11-12-2024 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Zucadragon
11-07-2024 5:43 AM


Re: Predictions for a Trump America
Zucdragon writes:
Right right, another measure then that disproportionally favors the rich, they have a higher tax rate on their income, so they'll gain the most from that.

The poorest will get only a small benefit from this.
Tariffs will shift much more of the tax burden onto the poor and middle class because more of their income goes towards goods that will be under tariffs. Sales tax is like that too.
Tariffs will also make the US less competitive in the long term. If US businesses are not forced to compete with exports then they won't innovate to lower costs. An argument can be made for protecting specific industries (e.g. car manufacturing, unfair government subsidies), but not a blanket tariff. Why would we need a tariff on bananas when we don't even grow bananas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Zucadragon, posted 11-07-2024 5:43 AM Zucadragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Zucadragon, posted 11-12-2024 4:09 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 45 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2024 5:20 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 49 of 332 (920750)
11-14-2024 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by PaulK
11-14-2024 10:28 AM


Re: It's Going to be a Wild Ride
PaulK writes:
Gaetz’ appointment is pure cronyism. A man who resigned form Congress to escape an Ethics Committee investigation as Attorney General? I’ve seen it suggested that he might be the first candidate for that position to take the 5th during his confirmation hearings.
Those confirmation hearings could be our first glimpse into the Republican caucus within the Senate. Are there any Republicans willing to go against Trump? Will Mitch McConnel throw a wrench in the works since he isn't running in the next election? Should be interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by PaulK, posted 11-14-2024 10:28 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 90 of 332 (920814)
11-21-2024 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by PaulK
11-21-2024 1:54 PM


Re: Gaetz has gone
PaulK writes:
The Republicans all wanted to keep it secret, so we may never know, but we can be sure it never came close to clearing him.
I don't know about all the Republicans. The report leaked yesterday, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was leaked by a Republican. Senate Republicans had already hinted that they weren't going to confirm him. I also wonder if Kevin McCarthy was involved, a last stab in the back and turn of the knife.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by PaulK, posted 11-21-2024 1:54 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by PaulK, posted 11-21-2024 3:33 PM Taq has replied
 Message 93 by Percy, posted 11-22-2024 8:19 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 92 of 332 (920817)
11-21-2024 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by PaulK
11-21-2024 3:33 PM


Re: Gaetz has gone
PaulK writes:
All the Republicans on the Committee voted to keep the report secret.
That's what I would do if I planned on leaking it later, especially if I wanted to save other Republicans from the discomfort of voting against Trump.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by PaulK, posted 11-21-2024 3:33 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 99 of 332 (920838)
11-25-2024 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Phat
11-22-2024 9:59 AM


Re: Gaetz has gone
Phat writes:
Just out of curiosity, who do you label as "MAGA" people? Republicans in general? Anyone who voted for Trump? Or anyone who does not share your shame and disdain for Trump.
MAGA isn't Republican. It's something different, a mix of Democratic populism and isolationism. This is why you have seen so many traditional Republicans leave the party over the last 8 years.
I know that he is not as dumb as the elite would like him to be. Anyone who has survived the spotlight turned up on him and ending up winning a popular vote mandate has got to have some sort of power.
It's his loose grip on reality that worries me the most. He believes whatever people tell him, thinks reality changes to fit his beliefs, and doesn't care to learn new things. He's also easily manipulated by flattery.
The one power he does have is being a salesman.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 11-22-2024 9:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 103 of 332 (921030)
12-20-2024 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Percy
12-20-2024 7:18 AM


Re: Trump Has An Idea
Percy writes:
Now it is happening again as Trump has sabotaged his own party's efforts to pass legislation raising the debt ceiling that would keep the government open.
Trump's not even in office yet, and he's already trying to shut the government down. Preview of things to come.
Oh, that reminds me, after providing $277 million to Trump's election campaign, Musk is Trump's new bestie. Trump has appointed him (and Vivek Ramaswamy) to a head a new "Department of Government Efficiency." See, money can buy happiness. And access. And power.
Musk has already floated requests for removing regulations that are inconvenient for his businesses. It's just straight up grift. This also tells us exactly what Musk will do with his position, benefit himself by going after government agencies that have caused his companies grief. Musk is a walking, talking government ethics violation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Percy, posted 12-20-2024 7:18 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Percy, posted 12-21-2024 9:23 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 193 of 332 (921221)
01-03-2025 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by K.Rose
01-03-2025 5:51 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes:
We'll get a clearer picture of all this in the coming days. And it will be thanks to the transparency forced by the Trump Administration.
Transparency forced by the Trump Administration??? What???
A constant flow of misinformation is not transparency. Hell, Trump can't even be transparent about who pays tariffs (it's the American importer, by the way).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by K.Rose, posted 01-03-2025 5:51 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 194 of 332 (921222)
01-03-2025 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by K.Rose
01-03-2025 5:53 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes:
What gives Harris the advantage?
Harris actually understands how health insurance works.
I once heard someone ask Trump what a deductible was. He thought a health insurance deductible was the amount of money a health insurance company paid before the customer had to pay anything. IOW, he thought health insurance deductibles worked in the exact opposite way that they actually work.
Trump was born a multi-millionaire, and he is incurious as to what it means to not be a millionaire. He has no idea what it is like to even be middle class. Harris at least understood that part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by K.Rose, posted 01-03-2025 5:53 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by K.Rose, posted 01-03-2025 6:58 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 196 of 332 (921224)
01-03-2025 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by K.Rose
01-03-2025 6:08 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes:
The 4 coordinated prosecutions (Bragg, Smith, James, Willis) were designed to keep Trump off the ballot, and/or out of office.
They were designed to convict someone who broke the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by K.Rose, posted 01-03-2025 6:08 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 293 of 332 (921481)
01-13-2025 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by K.Rose
01-12-2025 6:53 AM


Re: Trump Lies Again
K.Rose writes:
He was clear that he wants these tariffs to compel Canada to take care of its borders.
That's just stupid. We are going to twist Canada's arm by taxing Americans?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by K.Rose, posted 01-12-2025 6:53 AM K.Rose has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by dwise1, posted 01-13-2025 3:42 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10348
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.3


(1)
Message 296 of 332 (921495)
01-13-2025 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by dwise1
01-13-2025 3:42 PM


Re: Trump Lies Again
dwise1 writes:
I have to wonder if K.Rose still thinks that China paid us those "billions of dollars in tariffs" that Trump boasted about in his first term. You know, where China retaliated by cancelling their purchase of our soy bean crop, threatening our American farmers with financial ruin so Trump had to bail them out costing billions of dollars. Which Trump told us not to worry about where that money was going to come from because "that's the billions that China paid us in tariffs."

Has KR finally figured that out? Or does he still believe what Trump told him?
I'm kind of curious about that myself. What percentage of Trump voters really do think US tariffs on Chinese goods will be paid by China? Given what I have heard, probably more than half. Probably a good illustration of why Trump keeps lying . . . it works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by dwise1, posted 01-13-2025 3:42 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025