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Author Topic:   The Second Trump Presidency
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18053
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 241 of 446 (921315)
01-08-2025 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by K.Rose
01-07-2025 7:19 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
quote:
Some things I've learned recently:
You mean that you are falling down the anti-vax rabbit hole.
quote:
A 1986 law shields Pharma companies from liability for the vaccines they produce, i.e., they cannot be sued for injuries/damages caused by their vaccines.

Nevertheless they are still required to pay compensation for vaccine injuries. Isn’t this exactly the sort of thing your “tort reform”should be doing?
quote:
In 1986 there were 3 required childhood vaccines. Today there are 29, a >900% increase. Go figure.
The battle against disease goes on. And you want to stop it?
quote:
In 2022, a law firm that represents RFK sued one of the polio vaccine companies to force it to produce data showing that their vaccine had been properly tested/trialed. They did not, so the law firm requested suspension of that ONE vaccine until they produced the data. They have still not produced the data. This affected only one of many polio vaccines. This law firm was simply doing the right thing.
Having seen a similar case - and anti-vax campaigners misrepresenting the outcome - I suspect that this is far from the whole truth. But go ahead - produce references if you think you can show otherwise.
quote:
The NYT article that started all this appears to be a blatant fabrication.
It was not a fabrication - it may not be the case that RFK Jr wants to get rid of all polio vaccines but the events underlying the claim - and RFK Jrs anti-vax sentiments are very real.
quote:
quote:
I don’t see you mentioning these supposed idea for dealing with the problems ...
Trump's Team wants to dig into these problems, ask many questions, and expose everything that is going on, mega-transparency. I expect this will change the discussion completely and the public will get behind things that have never been considered before.
So in other words they haven’t even floated any ideas yet. A bit soon to judge, wouldn’t you say? And certainly no reason for ignoring past performance.
quote:
RFK and the rest are determined, capable, and sincere, and they are not beholden to Democrats, Republicans, or any of the health care system players. There is no reason to think they will not succeed where previous attempts have failed.
So, spreading disease and quackery it is then.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by K.Rose, posted 01-07-2025 7:19 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 3:08 PM PaulK has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9630
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 242 of 446 (921320)
01-08-2025 8:17 AM


Over here we're astonished to hear that the Orange Moron has threatened to invade Greenland if they don't give it to him. Mini Trump is there now making a fool of himself.
The Trump minime, Musk has created a real and dangerous mess by calling one of our MPs with a gold standard for safeguarding women a ‘rape genocide apologist’. She's now under real physical threat from right-wing nutters.
Thanks guys - and he isn't even in place yet.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23156
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 243 of 446 (921333)
01-08-2025 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by K.Rose
01-06-2025 3:23 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
I don't understand why you went into that extended digression. The man is a liar, a cheater, and a stealer. Those are all in the Ten Commandments. How can a Christian support such a man?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by K.Rose, posted 01-06-2025 3:23 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by DrJones*, posted 01-08-2025 11:12 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 251 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 2:53 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23156
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 244 of 446 (921336)
01-08-2025 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by K.Rose
01-07-2025 10:30 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes in Message 228:
PaulK writes in Message 226:
You will have irresponsible patients everywhere.
Food guidance is another one...
Agree these are longstanding problems. A good part of the reason is that nobody talks about them. Instead, we celebrate obesity and normalize overweight people in advertisements and store mannequins. Americans are the fattest people in the world. I hesitate to be so brusque about it, but the situation demands it.
Here's a bit of good news. I read recently that for the first time in a long time that American obesity recently declined slightly.
I believe it's a mistake to blame the victim. When much of an entire nation, especially one the size of the U.S., is experiencing the same problem then something else is going on. Easy, inexpensive and delicious calories are difficult to resist. Some proportion of the population can muster the willpower, but by and large willpower diets don't work.
Insurance companies do get involved in certain ways, at least some of them, for instance by paying for gym memberships and health advisors.
Trump's Team promises to address these problems head-on.
Obesity? Good luck. That opinion has nothing to do with Trump - I just think the problem's very big with many factors.
The past is passed, we have new problems, and we need to give these guys a chance.
They already had a chance and look what happened. Why the American people gave them another chance is not something I can make any sense of.
I haven't heard anything that's anywhere close to their ideas in very long time.
If you think back to a period beginning about eight years ago you might recall some extremely similar ideas. Threatening Denmark, Panama and Canada may seem like new ideas to you, but to me it seems like the same old same old. Maybe one of the recent virus spikes (norovirus, RSV and bird flu) will give Trump an opportunity for a covid redux.
quote:
The fact that.....for key positions.
We can litigate the past few decades' events "till the cows come home", casting all the aspersions we want.
PaulK said nothing about litigation - did you perhaps mean argue? Anyway, you're dismissing facts as "digs" and "aspersions", but they are facts, facts that you're ignoring. You can't dismiss or ignore or pretend or explain them away.
But that won't accomplish anything going forward. The only thing to be gained from the past is objectively-gleaned Lessons Learned, and this Trump Team promises to do that.
Are you delusional? Trump never, ever, admits error. He has no "Lessons Learned." The "Trump Team" will make the same types of mistakes they made the first time.
If they fall short, I will be the first to acknowledge their failure.
They fell short the first time and you're not acknowledging that, so the odds of you acknowledging any failures in this second administration are equally non-existent.
I am optimistic because I expect good things out of this administration,...
Why?
...and if I don't see it I will be disappointed and I will have no reason to rationalize or conceal my disappointment.
My expectation is that since you express no disappointment in the first administration that you won't express any about anything meaningful in this one either. I will be very surprised if I'm wrong.
I hired these people to do a job.
What job was that? Destroy democracy? Alienate our allies? Destroy our environment? Let our citizens die?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by K.Rose, posted 01-07-2025 10:30 AM K.Rose has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23156
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 245 of 446 (921337)
01-08-2025 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by K.Rose
01-06-2025 5:37 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes in Message 225:
xongsmith writes in Message 223:
but Trump doesn't uphold the Constitution. He shits all over it.
How so?
Seriously, dude? You want us to take your views on Trump seriously and then you give us this "play dumb" bullshit? What is it with you?
EvC Forum has been around for a long, long time (longer than Facebook and X) and used to be very active, but Google now puts us way at the bottom of searches so we no longer attract many new members and activity levels are way, way down from their heights from around 2004-2014. I'm the only active admin left, so the admonition to admins to not moderate threads they're participating in no longer makes sense and has to go by the board because I'm participating in all the active threads. If you have an explanation that would help me see this behavior in a different light then message me, but otherwise just cut the crap, okay?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by K.Rose, posted 01-06-2025 5:37 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 2:45 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2362
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 246 of 446 (921352)
01-08-2025 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Percy
01-08-2025 11:15 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
How can a Christian support such a man?​
easy they care more about power than morals

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Percy, posted 01-08-2025 11:15 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13140
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


(1)
Message 247 of 446 (921366)
01-09-2025 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by K.Rose
01-06-2025 5:37 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
In case it wasn't clear, you weren't expected to agree with xongsmith. It was the pretending you had no idea what he was referring to that was problematic.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by K.Rose, posted 01-06-2025 5:37 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 2:32 PM Admin has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23156
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 248 of 446 (921368)
01-09-2025 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by K.Rose
01-07-2025 10:30 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Responding to this again given Trump's comments yesterday:
K.Rose writes in Message 228:
I haven't heard anything that's anywhere close to their ideas in very long time.
Trump's comments yesterday from 'He is the blame for this': Trump points finger at Newsom for wildfires with disputed evidence - ABC News:
quote:
Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way...He is the blame for this.
Does this sound like a new idea to you, blaming Democratic politicians for natural disasters that occur in their region? Again, think back to a period beginning eight years ago. Do you recall Trump blaming Newsom for California fires then, too? Maybe when he said, "Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states," back in 2019? Maybe when he said, "They’re starting again in California. I said, you gotta clean your floors, you gotta clean your forests — there are many, many years of leaves and broken trees and they’re like, like, so flammable, you touch them and it goes up...Maybe we’re just going to have to make them pay for it because they don’t listen to us," in 2020?
In Trump's view, those parts of the country that are not led by loyal Republicans may as well not be part of the United States. He doesn't seem to understand that he will soon be president of all the states of the country, not just those states led by politicians he likes.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by K.Rose, posted 01-07-2025 10:30 AM K.Rose has not replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 234
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 249 of 446 (921378)
01-09-2025 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Admin
01-09-2025 10:58 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Admin writes in Message 247:
It was the pretending you had no idea what he was referring to that was problematic.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Have I violated some rule?
Here is the entirety of his post:
xongsmith writes in Message 223:
but Trump doesn't uphold the Constitution. He [s***s] all over it.
That's one assertion with no supporting argument, and one ambiguous crude reference. Asking for some type of elaboration is quite reasonable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Admin, posted 01-09-2025 10:58 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Admin, posted 01-09-2025 3:35 PM K.Rose has replied
 Message 256 by xongsmith, posted 01-10-2025 12:19 AM K.Rose has not replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 234
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 250 of 446 (921381)
01-09-2025 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Percy
01-08-2025 6:41 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Percy writes in Message 245:
... then you give us this "play dumb"...
Help me understand the protocol here.
Is asking someone to elaborate "playing dumb", or is disagreeing with someone playing dumb?
An entry like 223 makes it clear that Trump is disliked, but it doesn't of any thoughtful, reasoned support for its claim.
quote:
EvC Forum has been around for a long, long time ...
Not to kiss up, but I must say:
  • EvC is an excellent forum.
  • The software is near-perfect, in that I have not experienced a single bug or glitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Percy, posted 01-08-2025 6:41 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 234
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 251 of 446 (921382)
01-09-2025 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Percy
01-08-2025 11:15 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
Percy writes in Message 243:
I don't understand why you went into that extended digression.
Gee whiz, Percy. You asked me more or less the same question ("how can a moral Christian vote for him") at least three times, so I wanted to give you a clear explanation.
This line of discussion may digress from the main topic (2nd Trump Presidency), but it's perfectly in line with your entries and questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Percy, posted 01-08-2025 11:15 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Percy, posted 01-09-2025 3:52 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
K.Rose
Member
Posts: 234
From: Michigan
Joined: 02-02-2024
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 252 of 446 (921383)
01-09-2025 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by PaulK
01-08-2025 12:22 AM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
PaulK writes in Message 241:
Alas, we are at an impasse.
You are of the mind that Trump and his Team are thoroughly wrong-headed, incapable, duplicitous, and insincere. Not sure what compelling evidence could be brought in to support this, outside of adamant opinion.
I am optimistic that Trump and his Team will be successful even though they have not started and are not even officially in place. I have no compelling evidence to offer, outside of this opinion.
Not sure where to go from here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by PaulK, posted 01-08-2025 12:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by PaulK, posted 01-09-2025 3:31 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 18053
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 253 of 446 (921385)
01-09-2025 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by K.Rose
01-09-2025 3:08 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
quote:
You are of the mind that Trump and his Team are thoroughly wrong-headed, incapable, duplicitous, and insincere. Not sure what compelling evidence could be brought in to support this, outside of adamant opinion.
More accurately I know that. Just as I know that Trump is hardly for the “little man”. Remember the cruise ship at the start of the Covid pandemic? And how Trump only cared about the figures and how they made him look?
Or how about the fake elector plot? Or the related attempt to get Mike Pence to arbitrarily send the certified votes back to the States -something even Pence recognised as being against the Constitution.
Not to mention that you lead off with anti-vax spin.
quote:
I am optimistic that Trump and his Team will be successful even though they have not started and are not even officially in place. I have no compelling evidence to offer, outside of this opinion.

Because despite the supposed transparency Trump is just throwing things out - the suggestion that he might try to conquer Greenland is even worse than his promise that Mexico would pay for his wall. In the election Trump was claiming that he was the one for peace and his opponents were the warmongers. Yet now he’s suggesting that he might start a war with Europe by attacking a NATO member!
Seriously does that look good to you? Is that really what the incoming President should be saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 3:08 PM K.Rose has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13140
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 254 of 446 (921386)
01-09-2025 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by K.Rose
01-09-2025 2:32 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes in Message 249:
Admin writes in Message 247:
It was the pretending you had no idea what he was referring to that was problematic.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Have I violated some rule?
Here is the entirety of his post:
xongsmith writes in Message 223:
but Trump doesn't uphold the Constitution. He [s***s] all over it.
That's one assertion with no supporting argument, and one ambiguous crude reference. Asking for some type of elaboration is quite reasonable.
How so?

How do you like it when it's done to you? What you mean is quite as obvious as xongsmith's reference to a constant focus of this thread.
If you truly don't get it then that's on you. People can't be expected to have to deal with this level of obtuseness.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 2:32 PM K.Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by K.Rose, posted 01-10-2025 2:42 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 23156
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 255 of 446 (921387)
01-09-2025 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by K.Rose
01-09-2025 2:53 PM


Re: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!
K.Rose writes in Message 251:
Percy writes in Message 243:
I don't understand why you went into that extended digression.
Gee whiz, Percy. You asked me more or less the same question ("how can a moral Christian vote for him") at least three times, so I wanted to give you a clear explanation.
This line of discussion may digress from the main topic (2nd Trump Presidency), but it's perfectly in line with your entries and questions.
I don't know what to tell you. You entirely missed the point by digressing into Godly versus worldly law. Trump lies, cheats and steals. That breaks both Godly and worldly laws. It's in the legal codes of all the towns, cities and states and of the nation, and it's in God's Ten Commandments. How can a Christian support such a man?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by K.Rose, posted 01-09-2025 2:53 PM K.Rose has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by dwise1, posted 01-10-2025 7:45 PM Percy has replied

  
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