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Author Topic:   Change in Moderation?
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 152 of 303 (91777)
03-11-2004 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Dan Carroll
03-11-2004 1:27 PM


Satire you say
OK, I mistook the topic in question, as being an attempt at serious discussion. I wasn't keen on it being an attack on Christianity in the first place. Then (even to my imperceptive abilities) it turned into a "humor" string.
The topic can be reopened. But, is there really a calling for such a topic, in the scope of ? (not a rhetorical question)
As I see it, one dubious idiological topic does not justify another dubious idiological topic.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-11-2004 1:27 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Percy, posted 03-11-2004 3:36 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 155 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-11-2004 3:51 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 157 by Mammuthus, posted 03-12-2004 4:29 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 158 by MrHambre, posted 03-12-2004 6:21 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 159 by Dr Jack, posted 03-12-2004 6:44 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 153 of 303 (91780)
03-11-2004 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Adminnemooseus
03-11-2004 3:10 PM


Introducing new ideologies
Perhaps you and Asgara could agree on the proper misspelling of ideology?
--Percy
Ah heck - I did do the special effort to avoid "atempt", "inperceptive" and "retorical".
--Adminnemooseus
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-11-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-11-2004 3:10 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Quetzal, posted 03-11-2004 3:40 PM Percy has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 154 of 303 (91783)
03-11-2004 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Percy
03-11-2004 3:36 PM


Re: Introducing new ideologies
Oh, I dunno Percy. I think Moose's version "idiology" is quite evocative of both the threads in question...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Percy, posted 03-11-2004 3:36 PM Percy has not replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 155 of 303 (91786)
03-11-2004 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Adminnemooseus
03-11-2004 3:10 PM


Yes, I Do Say
It wasn't the closing of the thread I object to so much as the implied threat of suspension.
From the first post, the thread was a goofy rip on Syamsu's thread. But the fact that Syamsu has been going ape-dookie in his thread for jebus only knows how long without so much as a sneeze from moderation, and meanwhile, in a handful of posts Mammuthus, Hambre and I were oh so subtly reminded of DT's suspension for humor, in a situation where we were using Syamsu's style of argument smacks to me of severely misplaced mod anger.
Wanna close the goofy spoof thread? Why not. Not a big deal. It was a goofy fun-fest anyway. But to levy the implied threat at the three of us while turning a blind eye to Syamsu seems a little outrageous to me.

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-11-2004 3:10 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 156 of 303 (92024)
03-12-2004 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Dan Carroll
03-11-2004 1:27 PM


Only in your fantasy Dan. Read the forumrules, then try to apply them to the postings in the thread impartially.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-11-2004 1:27 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 157 of 303 (92034)
03-12-2004 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Adminnemooseus
03-11-2004 3:10 PM


Re: why not a freaking humorless creationist only EvC forum?
First, while I don't think the topic needs to be reopened and was meant as satire, I think it is completely appropriate to discuss the involvement of religion in the holocaust. Syamsu is not the only one who brings up the stupid argument that if you accept the
ToE you are a nazi while simultaneously claiming no christians were involved. I have been in arguments on this subject with several people on this board over the last year..Tokyojim comes to mind though at least with TJ it was a more interesting discussion.
Second, as Dan pointed out, Syamsu has blatantly broken forum rules in every thread he posts in. He refuses to support his assertions and has even gone so far as to claim he will not read anything relating to the subjects of the threads he is in. His sole intention is to repeat his ignorant claims like a troll. So, since you seem only inclined to threaten Dan, Hambre and myself and let Syamsu get away with anything he wants, what do you suggest? Page is gone. Darwinsterrier is gone. A pretty fair attempt to get crashfrog to leave is still in progress. Do you want us all to stop posting as well and just have the syamsu, Stephen ben Yeshua, ken, lawdog unanswered post forum?
Third, this is where the big problem is. I have actually read (hear that Syamsu..some people read) about the eugenics movement and its origins. It would make for a great topic to discuss/debate. I had considered opening a thread to discuss Daniel Kevles most recent book on eugenics. But not with Syamsu posting since it would be a waste of time. He derails every thread he comes into with complete nonsense. According to you, it would be better to let Syamsu do as he pleases, slap the rest of us down, and prevent any discussion on the relevant subjects. Darwinsterrier got suspened without a single warning for one post. Syamsu has multiple threads of inappropriate posts and you want to give him a medal. I don't get it. Maybe I will take Syamsu's advice and "just go away"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-11-2004 3:10 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 158 of 303 (92042)
03-12-2004 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Adminnemooseus
03-11-2004 3:10 PM


Eumemics
I agree with Dan and Mammuthus that the thread was less an issue than the threat.
It was Mr.Bound who had the bright idea to start a thread in the exact same words that Syamsu used to start the "Darwinist Ideology" flamewar. I'm fed up with being told that accepting Darwin's theory is the same as advocating eugenics and Nazism. I considered us justified in trying to show how odious and ridiculous Syamsu's claims are by applying the same exact 'logic' to Christianity.
If the thread had merely been moved to the Free for All, I would have thought the powers that be wanted to shove the comedy somewhere more appropriate until it fizzled out. Closing the thread and shaming the participants makes me wonder whether they think Syamsu has good reason to argue the garbage he does, in the manner he does.
regards,
Esteban Hambre

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-11-2004 3:10 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Mammuthus, posted 03-12-2004 6:45 AM MrHambre has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 159 of 303 (92045)
03-12-2004 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Adminnemooseus
03-11-2004 3:10 PM


Re: Satire you say
I believe the original thread ([b]thread[/d] dammit! Not string!) was satirical but justifiably so - I consider satire to be a valid and useful way of making a point. And I think in this case it highlighted a valid point.
Having said that, I find the way that certain evos rapidly diverge onto a cyclical loop of Syamsu mocking neither pretty nor productive - without that diversion it could well have been a worthwhile thread.
Having said that (again), I agree that the Admin's repeated attacks on the more jovial evo elements is rather out of whack with the longstanding tolerance of Syamsu.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-11-2004 3:10 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 160 of 303 (92046)
03-12-2004 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by MrHambre
03-12-2004 6:21 AM


Re: Moose to the rescue?
quote:
Closing the thread and shaming the participants makes me wonder whether they think Syamsu has good reason to argue the garbage he does, in the manner he does.
Good point Mr. Hambre.
Adminimooseus, if you are not inclined to moderate Syamsu's atrocious behavior and Syamsu has indicated his unwillingness to desist and the specific intention to not support his assertions, it behooves you to support Syamsu's position if you are able. If you are indicating by your moderating only Dan, Hambre, and myself that we have overlooked something of key importance brought up by Syamsu, it is up to you to pick up the thread and argue it since Syamsu is unwilling. If this is not the case please clarify your moderating activities of late since it seems you are merely trying to pick off the people you personally do not like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by MrHambre, posted 03-12-2004 6:21 AM MrHambre has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 161 of 303 (92057)
03-12-2004 8:41 AM


You all have no case whatsoever. An adminstrator would actually have to be specific about forumrules I violate, and not pluck things from fantasy like you all do. Case in point I have never said that anyone who accepts Darwin's theory is therefore a Nazi, that is just a fantasy. Come on up and show all those forumrule violations.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-12-2004 9:17 AM Syamsu has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 162 of 303 (92063)
03-12-2004 9:12 AM


Hey, Jerry, what's the story?
Gee, this is ironic! A supposedly neutral website that most perceive as pro-evolution, but where the moderators are biased against pro-evolution members!
One possibility may be that, at least on a subconscious level, the moderators sense some handicapping is appropriate. I'm don't know that this is the answer, I'm just speculating - while the moderators compare notes, and while there are moderator guidelines, for the most part moderators follow their own sense of when and how much moderation is required.
This feedback is important and very helpful. It hasn't escaped my notice, or anyone's for that matter, that Creationist participation here has become less robust. There's an almost comical element to what happens now when a new Creationist posts a message here - the evolutionists all have the answer and fall all over themselves to be first. In very short order the Creationist post has 5 or 6 replies, and it doesn't take long before they feel the debate is unfair and one-sided. And they're not exactly wrong, either. Imagine how successful you would be in a debate by yourself with 10 flat-earthers.
--Percy
PS - The subtitle is from a late 60's commercial broadcast frequently in the NY metropolitan area, I don't know why it suddenly struck me. Anyone remember it?

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 303 (92065)
03-12-2004 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Syamsu
03-12-2004 8:41 AM


If You Insist...
Syamsu writes:
Come on up and show all those forumrule violations.
quote:
Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
On at least two occasions, you brought up a subject, and when you received a response, claimed the subject was off-topic.
quote:
Debate in good faith by addressing rebuttals through the introduction of new information or by providing additional argument. Do not merely keep repeating the same points without elaboration.
When you received a response to your "equality, freedom of choice, and wonder of creativity" argument, you ignored it for two pages, and then changed the subject when pressed into responding. Then, several pages later, repeated your original argument verbatim without addressing the rebuttals.
quote:
Respect for others is the rule here. Argue the position, not the person. The Britannica says, "Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach."
Refer to Hambre's list of insults you lobbed at other posters in that thread.
quote:
Make your points by providing supporting argument. Avoid bare assertions. Because it is often not possible to tell which points will prove controversial, it is acceptable to wait until a point is challenged before supporting it.
Not only did you refuse to support many of your arguments, you flat-out refused to acknowledge that which supported the opposite of your arguments.
So there's four forum rules for you to chew on, for starters.
[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 03-12-2004]

"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Syamsu, posted 03-12-2004 8:41 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Syamsu, posted 03-13-2004 5:54 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

Mr. Bound
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 303 (92119)
03-12-2004 7:25 PM


Hey, it's me, I started the Forum:Christian Ideology thread. Yes, this thread was meant to be a satire. With a purpose. That purpose being to show that Syamsu's request for a forum regarding Darwinian Ideology was laughable and irrelevant. It's no great secret that Evolution was used in politics to justify atrocities. Just as it's no secret that religion, including in particular Christianity, was used by politics to commit atrocities. Neither side generally denies these facts, yet neither believe them to affect the debate 'Evolution vs. Creation'. So, I decided if Syamsu was pressing for a forum that could only be used to point the finger of moral blame at the Theory of Evolution, then it should be only fair that I pressed for a forum to justifiably point the same finger at Christianity. However, you deleted my thread and not his. I would like to know why.

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Percy, posted 03-13-2004 9:38 AM Mr. Bound has not replied
 Message 167 by Syamsu, posted 03-13-2004 10:27 AM Mr. Bound has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 165 of 303 (92198)
03-13-2004 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Dan Carroll
03-12-2004 9:17 AM


Re: If You Insist...
I don't know what you're talking about in the first part.
I did answer the rebuttals, by saying it was in relation to the creation vs evolution controversy.
As before MrHambre's list doesn't contain insults, I'm just trying to dismiss people from the thread who contribute nothing meaningful, such as people who don't believe Darwinist ideology exists.
I supported arguments when asked. I referenced an appraissal of the discipline of ecology and an appraissal of the discipline of extinction to support me. Quetzal and Mammuthus however, didn't reference any appraissal whatsoever, eventhough I explicitly asked them to about 7 times.
As before you have no case whatsoever.
regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-12-2004 9:17 AM Dan Carroll has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 166 of 303 (92215)
03-13-2004 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Mr. Bound
03-12-2004 7:25 PM


Obviously it reflects the overt anti-evolution bias of this board.
Seriously, I can't comment, I didn't delete your thread. If you have a copy, why not post it again in Free For All.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Mr. Bound, posted 03-12-2004 7:25 PM Mr. Bound has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-13-2004 1:45 PM Percy has not replied

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