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Author Topic:   Apparent contradiction in the Big Bang Theory
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 19 (92942)
03-17-2004 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CrackerJack
03-17-2004 10:28 AM


CrackerJack,
I am not quite sure about your argument, but maybe we can clear up a few points.
1. Not all galaxies formed at the same time. Galaxies are no more than a gathering of mass due to gravitational forces. Galaxies have stars because within the larger gathering, there are smaller gatherings which become compressed enough, through gravity, to start fusion reactions. Nebulae are just loose affiliations of gas that do not have spin. Within these nebulae we can see star formation. It is possible that given enough time that these nebulae could compress enough to form galaxies.
2. All the galaxies/mass are not concentrated on the edges of space. Using the balloon example, the galaxies are not all on the surface of the expanding balloon.
quote:
If object A is 13.2 billion light years away, and object B is 13 billion light years away, the distance between object A and object B is less than 1.2 billion light years (based on the age of the universe being 13.7 billion years). Simple high school trigonometry tells you that the angle of separation between these two objects would be a maximum of something like 5.2 degrees (please correct me if I made a mistake in my calculation).
What if those galaxies were colinear. That is, they are in a straight line with earth. Then they would be separated by 0 degrees and still consistent with the Big Bang. I don't see where measuring the distance between these two objects in degrees has any bearing on their relative age. Distance is the best guage, being that the speed of light is constant in a vacuum (ignoring gravitation effects).
quote:
The universe may be shaped like a balloon, but that is not the shape it appears to us. It would appear to use to be somewhat cone shaped due to the fact that we are not viewing all objects in the position they are now, but in various positions back in time.
As I understand it, the edge of the universe is shaped like a balloon. We are like a fish swimming in a balloon whose edges are moving out faster than we could ever swim. In a way, the balloon is infinite because we can never hit or experience the edge, but the horizon nevertheless exists. The inner part of the balloon, with the water, defines our realm of experience. Moving back to the universe, galaxies and celestial bodies fill the inner part of the balloon, not just the outer surface.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CrackerJack, posted 03-17-2004 10:28 AM CrackerJack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Eggmann, posted 03-17-2004 3:48 PM Loudmouth has not replied
 Message 11 by CrackerJack, posted 03-17-2004 6:37 PM Loudmouth has replied
 Message 14 by Raymon, posted 03-18-2004 4:20 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 19 (93156)
03-18-2004 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by CrackerJack
03-17-2004 6:37 PM


quote:
If the space of the universe is expanding, but the objects in the universe are not moving (or moving very little when compared to the expansion), then a light year is a calculation of distance, but not age.
Distance is measured independently of age. Cosmological distances can be measured using several different methodologies which I not very familiar with but seem to include light intensity, paralax measurements (the angle to the object from two different points in earth's orbit) and resolution (inferometry or something like that). If the distance measured is 13 billion light years, then the light we are seeing is 13 billion years old. The conclusion that is reached is that 13 billion years ago there was an object in that spot emitting light. Measurements over time could reveal the objects speed and direction. This would allow us to place the object in its current position, assuming that no other objects in space will cause deviation from this path. I believe that we have been able to track near galaxies, and in fact Andromeda may run into the Milky Way in the near future (one estimate was 900,000 years if I remember correctly, I may have to look that up).
Just as a side note, if two objects are moving away from each other, the speed of light does not change but the frequency does (it causes Red Shift via Dopler effects). If objects are moving towards each other there is a Blue Shift. So movement does not change age estimates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by CrackerJack, posted 03-17-2004 6:37 PM CrackerJack has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 19 (93189)
03-18-2004 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Raymon
03-18-2004 4:20 PM


Re: Balloon analogy flawed
Raymon,
Thanks. Astronomy is not one of my strengths. I was hoping that if I got anything wrong someone would cover my ass. Perhaps you could take a look at the posts I responded to and add to them, or correct them? I probably shouldn't have strayed outside the realm of my knowledge, but sometimes that is the only way to learn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Raymon, posted 03-18-2004 4:20 PM Raymon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Eggmann, posted 03-19-2004 3:05 AM Loudmouth has not replied
 Message 19 by Eggmann, posted 03-21-2004 5:34 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
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