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Author | Topic: Scientific errors in the Bible | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The Arachnophile Inactive Member |
Die-hard YECs claim that the Bible is infallible. Indeed, much of their arguments against Evolution seem to rest on this very position.
I have discussed evolution and creationism on Norwegian websites for quite some time, but I have never had the scientific errors in the Bible explained and I hope some christian fundamentalist on this forum can explain the following: 1. The Bible clearly states that insects have four legs (believe me, they have six, and spiders have eight!): "Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth. Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. " (Lev. 11.21-22) 2. The hare is a ruminant!: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you." (Lev. 11.6.) There are many, many more examples of how scientifically wrong the Bible is, but being an biologist, these are my favourites. I just hope some of you fundamentalists can try to explain this away. The Arachnophile
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Hi Arachnophile! Welcome to evcforum. From your pseudonym, I'm hoping you're an entomologist. We have a YEC here who has been arguing that insects could have survived the year-long putative Flood by hanging on to hypothetical vegetation mats
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compmage Member (Idle past 5181 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
quote: I don't think you will be getting any answers that don't require either a specific interpretation of the texts or something to the effect that these errors are a result of translation. However, either of these mean that the bible is not the literal truth. ------------------compmage
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The Arachnophile Inactive Member |
Hi Arachnophile! Welcome to evcforum. From your pseudonym, I'm hoping you're an entomologist.
Thanks. Well, actually I am an arachnologist (we deal with spiders, daddy longlegs, and other arachnids). We have a YEC here who has been arguing that insects could have survived the year-long putative Flood by hanging on to hypothetical vegetation mats Thanks. I'll try to find it. The Arachnophile
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
One off-topic post and then I'll let you get back to your thread.
quote: Outstanding! Spiders are too cool. I think this must be evidence of the existence of god - or karma or something. I am at this very moment attempting to counter an argument on another bb about the evolutionary pathway (err, lack thereof according to my opponent) that led to web spinning behavior in modern orb spiders. Do you have any good on-line articles I can peruse? (I've already checked out Zschokke's page on Araneus diadematus and Vanuytven's "Arachnology Home Page" links. I'm looking for some refereed journal articles on-line that I don't have to pay for Thanks for your help.
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The Arachnophile Inactive Member |
Hmm. A bit difficult to find papers for free on the web but here are some links that may help:
http://www.brics.dk/~krink/netSpinner/index.html http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA/JoA_v27_n1/arac_27_01_0053.pdf http://www.unibas.ch/dib/nlu/staff/sz/pdf/nomenorb.pdf http://www.gwu.edu/~clade/spiders/jc.htm I would recommend that you try to obtain the following books/articles: Coddington, J. A. 1986. The monophyletic origin of the orb web. In W. A. Shear, ed. Spider Webs and Spider Behavior, pp. 319-363. Stanford Univ. Press. Coddington, J. A. 1989. Spinneret silk spigot morphology. Evidence for the monophyly of orb-weaving spiders, Cyrtophorinae (Araneidae), and the group Theridiidae-Nesticidae. J. Arachnology, 17(1): 71-95. Griswold, C. E., J. A. Coddington, G. Hormiga, and N. Scharff. 1998. Phylogeny of the orb-web building spiders (Araneae, Orbiculariae: Deinopoidea, Araneoidea). Zool. J. Linn. Soc. 123: 1-99. Hope this helps. And yes, spiders are wonderful creatures which are so complex in their contruction and behaviour that it is easy to believe they must be created by a supernatural being! Spiders are also excellent model organisms for the study of evolution and evolutionary mechanisms. The Arachnophile
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Thanks a million for the links and references, Arachnophile.
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5060 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
It is much better evidently to rest them on this foundation while the indivdual development of evolution is being synthesized.
The reason more results are not appearing sooner is that internal differences arose in creation science that with so much less funding that fundys science time is taken away from building the philsophy post-naturalism on something else such as intelligent design.
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Jonathan Inactive Member |
quote: Which has better odds of actually occuring in nature? 1.)A few bugs survived a storm by floating around in/on debris.Or 2.)That life spontaniously arose from a chemical soup? For now Ill put my money on the bugs. I havent seen any new never before seen animals springing out of my pond but I have seen clumps of ants the size of my fist floating on the water after a flood. Please dont discount some of the low probabilities in the creationist theories when there are far far greater streaches in the biogenesis/evolutionary theory.
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Tranquility Base Inactive Member |
1. Is 'on all four' a literal translation or a colloquial one? Is it even possible that the ancients use 'on all four' colloquially as we do? Simple Hebrew/Aramaic research will answer the first part.
2. The ruminent issue is discussed at www.answersingenesis.org (search for ruminant probably). The point made is that the term 'chew the cud' may have included both classic cud chewing and the fact that rabbits eat their dung. [This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 07-05-2002]
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][b]1.)A few bugs survived a storm by floating around in/on debris.[/QUOTE]
[/b] How hot was the water? You may be aware that some calculations of the water temperature of the flood are well above boiling. Also, explain how an olive tree (in the Bible) and a number of bristlecone pines (in the American southwest) survived a year underwater. I think I should add that we are not talking about "a few bugs". We are talking hundreds of thousands of species, including those that exist as parasites inside other bugs. The ants you are refering to that ball up in a flood are probably fire ants, an accidental introduction from the Amazon River basin, where flooding is an annual ritual (hence their rafting behavior is an adaptation not common in other species). They reached the United States through human shipping, making landfall in New Orleans in the 19th century. If they could survive the harsh conditions of a year-long brine flood, then they would probably have made it to the US before Europeans did, floating in ant rafts (or debris) across the Gulf. They also would have had a decent chance of reaching Europe and Africa. This is one of the problems for the flood presented by biogeography.If bugs could float all over the world on rafts, then they should all be cosmopolitan. Especially after the Flood. Another biogeography problem is that if all animals came through the Middle East, then the arid regions around Palestine should be the most ecologically productive deserts in the world. There should be representatives of most any desert organism in the world found there. I have yet to hear of Western Diamondbacks found in the West Bank or any species from the American Southwest.
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John Inactive Member |
The thread is now dead but I had a discussion with TC concerning the olive branch, if anyone wants to take a peek.
http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=page&f=7&t=27&p=19 ------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Jonathan Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gene90:
[b] [QUOTE][b]1.)A few bugs survived a storm by floating around in/on debris.[/QUOTE] [/b] quote: Some, not all.
quote: Devine intervention? If God can create the earth and flood it Im sure he can preserve a few trees while they're under water. If God is real he certantly doesnt follow our laws of physics.
[QUOTE]If bugs could float all over the world on rafts, then they should all be cosmopolitan. Especially after the Flood. [/B][/QUOTE] Then why do we have birds, snakes, insects all of very similar structure on every contenant? Did they all evolve independantly of each other? [This message has been edited by Jonathan, 07-05-2002] [This message has been edited by Jonathan, 07-05-2002]
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Percy Member Posts: 22500 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Jonathan writes: This is fine from a faith perspective. It only becomes an issue when people want to teach it in science class. --Percy
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Insects popped up in the Devonian (410-360 mya), reptiles in the Carboniferous (360-286 mya), birds in the Jurassic (208-146 mya). Pangea began to split around 180 mya. See the overlap?
Various -zoics Pangea ------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com
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