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Author Topic:   The Most Dangerous Individual To Ever Live
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 61 (93604)
03-20-2004 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Buzsaw
03-20-2004 8:19 PM


quote:
How many times in the link of this post is the word "fight" quoted from the Quran itself, not to mention the Sunnas and the Hadiths, Holmes? There is not one single reference to the word "fight" in the New Testament" as to applying to commanding or encouraging Christians to engage in fighting anyone. So I repeat, where am I lying??
And you, sir, how many times must I remind you that the Qur'an said Muslims are only allowed to fight against those who oppress and attack them? And that violence without a reason is condemned by the Qur'an?
By your way of thinking, I could pick and count the word 'devil' or 'satan' in your Bible and say that because your scriptures talk so much about the devil you must be a devil-worshipping sect. I will state that what I am doing is picking words out of context. If you say I am wrong, then you are also guilty of the same mistake. You only pick the word 'fight' without even bothering to read the words around it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 03-20-2004 8:19 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 03-20-2004 11:06 PM Andya Primanda has replied

  
Angeldust
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 61 (93605)
03-20-2004 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Silent H
03-20-2004 7:15 PM


I don't know the original source of this statistic, so it could very well be incorrect, and how they determined this I don't know but...
I've heard it said that only 10% of the population actually thinks for themselves. The other 90% just go along with what they've been told from others. (I'm not commenting on anyone in particular before someone starts to get defensive)
I think this is true within the church as well as outside of it. I think though that it's more obvious within the church because if we really believe it we should be able to say why, as well be knowledgeable about the particulars of the faith and probably some of it's history.
People tend to be lazy as a rule, so unless they have a particular reason to work at something, they tend not to. There are a lot of people in churches who just go by what the pastor said on sunday, and that's all the knowledge they have. It's depressing but true.
As a theist whose completely addicted to books and the search of knowledge, I won't take offense because you didn't say all theists. But I agree that many within the church need to wake up and really look at what they claim to believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2004 7:15 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 61 (93608)
03-20-2004 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Silent H
03-20-2004 7:15 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thiests tend to not be curious about the world?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Correct. There appears to be very little interest in matters of objective truth regarding the world. Or at the very least theists show little interest in PURSUING matters of objective truth through an effort of research.
How can you say that, Me asking questions and researching Methods of dating the Earth (Greenland Ice Cores Topic) disproves your point.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They do not read or study things?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Sure, but nothing very heavy, including their own religious text, or more than that histories of their own religion.
You can't put a few examples of Christians in a box and expect to have truth about all Christians in their Entirety. It's absurd.
And how can you make assumptions about the thousands or Christians out there based on the so few that you have seen. (According to your view.)

The earth is flat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2004 7:15 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2004 11:30 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 34 of 61 (93610)
03-20-2004 10:03 PM


OK, this thread hasn't been on topic since post 8. I have asked that the Islam bashing be taken to a different thread, and now I'm asking that the theist vs atheist views on knowledge be taken to a new one also.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 61 (93614)
03-20-2004 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by AdminAsgara
03-20-2004 10:03 PM


Asgara, before you condemn this thread as a bashing of Islam, why don't you refute my statements about Islam? Are they true, or not? If they cannot be proven to be untrue, it is not an Islam bashing thread.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-21-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 61 (93615)
03-20-2004 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Andya Primanda
03-20-2004 8:51 PM


Andya:
1. Many of the texts refering to fighting are not in the defensive vein.
2. The Quran makes it plain that Islam is suppose to dominate the world and this implication is clear in many statement in the Quran
I don't mean to go off topic, but I believe this is necessary information to substantiate the reason for my choice of the two idividuals in response to the thread title question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-20-2004 8:51 PM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-20-2004 11:20 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 61 (93617)
03-20-2004 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
03-20-2004 11:06 PM


quote:
Andya:
1. Many of the texts refering to fighting are not in the defensive vein.
2. The Quran makes it plain that Islam is suppose to dominate the world and this implication is clear in many statement in the Quran
1. Prove it to me. Quote chapter and verse and which translation.
2. Same as no.1.
Btw, this is off-topic. May I suggest you and I take this to another forum, Faith & Belief maybe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 03-20-2004 11:06 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Buzsaw, posted 03-21-2004 10:42 PM Andya Primanda has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 38 of 61 (93618)
03-20-2004 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Angeldust
03-20-2004 8:59 PM


quote:
I've heard it said that only 10% of the population actually thinks for themselves. The other 90% just go along with what they've been told from others.
You know this could very well be true. I suppose the difference (in my perception) may be that theists more often try to preach to others about their faith, or get called on points of their faith, and as a result have more chances of proving how much they don't know than the average atheist does.
Maybe I'll start spot checking atheists.
quote:
As a theist whose completely addicted to books and the search of knowledge, I won't take offense because you didn't say all theists.
Yeah, I really didn't mean to say all theists.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Angeldust, posted 03-20-2004 8:59 PM Angeldust has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by joshua221, posted 03-21-2004 7:46 AM Silent H has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 39 of 61 (93619)
03-20-2004 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by joshua221
03-20-2004 9:57 PM


quote:
Me asking questions and researching Methods of dating the Earth (Greenland Ice Cores Topic) disproves your point.
Well I don't know you enough to say whether you are interested in knowledge or not, but I will remind you that I wasn't saying ALL theists were disinterested.
That means you and many others can be... just not the majority (according to my experience anyway). In fact, there are several theists on EvC which seem quite knowledgeable and I respect their opinions.
So take it easy. Relax.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by joshua221, posted 03-20-2004 9:57 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 40 of 61 (93620)
03-20-2004 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Buzsaw
03-20-2004 8:19 PM


quote:
So I repeat, where am I lying??
Why don't you go to the thread and read my response to find out? I'll clue you in, the biggest problem is that how many times "fight" is used in that one link doesn't make one bit a difference. Nice try though.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 03-20-2004 8:19 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Riley
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 61 (93621)
03-21-2004 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Apostle
03-18-2004 1:49 AM


Apostle,
First, no offense intended, but if you want to discuss Friedrich Nietzsche it's a good idea to learn how to spell his name.
I'm making the assumption that you identify Nietzsche as the "mastermind" whose ideas were either "used... or twisted" by Hitler. If so:
1. What works or concepts of Nietzsche did Hitler use? Did he use those works cogently or not? Did Hitler ever quote Nietzsche in public?
2. Was Nietzsche an anti-Semite? Was he a proponent of German nationalism?
3. Did the Nazis act in accordance with Nietzsche's writings? Which ones?
4. If Nietzsche was "twisted" by Hitler, is that somehow a result of Nietzsche's work? Did he ever consider the misuse of his concepts?
5. How did you determine that Nietzsche was "the" influence on Hitler? Are there any others? Can we parcel out responsibility?
6. In your opinion, would Nazism have arisen without Nietzsche as a precursor?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Apostle, posted 03-18-2004 1:49 AM Apostle has not replied

  
Corkscrew
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 61 (93629)
03-21-2004 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Apostle
03-18-2004 1:49 AM


Most Dangerous
Jesus would have to close to the top of this list....assuming that we are listing people who 'started' evil balls rolling.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 61 (93631)
03-21-2004 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Silent H
03-20-2004 11:22 PM


Understood.

The earth is flat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2004 11:22 PM Silent H has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 61 (93764)
03-21-2004 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Corkscrew
03-21-2004 6:25 AM


Re: Most Dangerous
Jesus would have to close to the top of this list....assuming that we are listing people who 'started' evil balls rolling.
Those evil balls began rolling because evil regimes like pagan Rome which persecuted the early Christians. Under Constantine pagan Rome then emerged with a concoction of Christianity which became hierarchial and brutal, ignoring the clear instructions of Christ and the apostles about harming no one but operating out of a love agenda. Jesus was the one who's influence set off the ball but Satan was pushing the ball along.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-21-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Corkscrew, posted 03-21-2004 6:25 AM Corkscrew has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 61 (93766)
03-21-2004 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Andya Primanda
03-20-2004 11:20 PM


Andya:
1. Many of the texts refering to fighting are not in the defensive vein.
2. The Quran makes it plain that Islam is suppose to dominate the world and this implication is clear in many statement in the Quran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Prove it to me. Quote chapter and verse and which translation.
2. Same as no.1.
Btw, this is off-topic. May I suggest you and I take this to another forum, Faith & Belief maybe?
If I participate in another Islam thread, Asgara's shure's heck gona add another to her list of two Islamic bashing threads I'm into if I post the facts. Besides, I don't see that we're off topic. How am I gona show that Mohammed is a dangerous man to prove my point for the topic of this thread without discussing him and his religion, pray tell??
There's quite a lot in the link I gave about fighting and not all in the defensive vein from both the Quran, and the Haddiths. Did you read them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-20-2004 11:20 PM Andya Primanda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by AdminAsgara, posted 03-21-2004 10:46 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 49 by Andya Primanda, posted 03-22-2004 2:07 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
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